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Mystery New Haven mantle clock...

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    Posted 10 years ago

    utherrr
    (3 items)

    The base of this piece is 5"x15". The clock face is 3.75" diameter. The material I believe is alabaster or marble because this clock weighs approximately 13 lbs. The stone around the clock face is 5" diameter and width is 1.75". It is 11.5" in height. The face has New Haven printed on it and so I assume it is a product of the New Haven Clock Company. It is an electric clock, and has the cord removed from the motor, so it does not run. The back has a small shaft that rotates slightly and has "start" imprinted, and the center hole has "handset" imprinted. The bottom base has "Made in Italy 529" or "Made in Italy 52g" I cant tell.

    I have looked up hundreds upon hundreds of New haven clocks and have never seen one image of my clock. Can anyone assist me with a model, time or date. It is really a beautiful piece :)

    Unsolved Mystery

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    Comments

    1. Aimathena Aimathena, 10 years ago
      Congrats, very nice clock. Welcome to cw
    2. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you and thank you!
    3. pops52 pops52, 10 years ago
      Very beautiful!
    4. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you!
    5. racer4four racer4four, 10 years ago
      Love her Egyptian look!
    6. Chadakoin Chadakoin, 10 years ago
      I think I may have an answer for you....
      http://www.greatwesternauctions.com/catalogues/es301113/lot0761b.html

      Amazing how things get repurposed over the years!
    7. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you all for the positive comments! I followed the link and that's my girl, minus the hole drilled in the side and cord that runs through the arm. Mine is drilled through the bottom for the cord to run through.
      So did New Haven Clock Company buy this cast woman, globe and machine the base edges off, and machine the clock to set inside the totally redesigned housing? Is this an actual New Haven Clock Company Model?

      The mystery continues I'm afraid..
    8. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Upon further inspection of the shade in the link, its too thin to have been machined into what now is the clock housing. The material is the same as the base, and no less than 5/8" thick at the smallest dimension. The feet are some sort of stone, the bottom of the base machined and recessed to fit the feet. I am stumped :(
    9. inky inky, 10 years ago
      Sorry!..I can't help but just have to say ..it's beautiful....:-)
    10. rlwindle rlwindle, 10 years ago
      utherrr,
      I have been on that search for two of my clocks, one you saw (the harlequin lady on the clock), and this one http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/43047-white-alabaster-male-figural-new-haven-c . They are not listed in Tran Duy Ly's book "New Haven Clocks and Watches". Which leads me to believe they just supplied the movements for other companies. The figure of the Harlequin lady on the clock in my collection that you saw was made by J.B Hirsch which produced a whole line of the Harlequin lady on bookends, lamps, clocks, etc. It looks like later on Hirsch switched to Whitehall-Hammond for their cases and movements. I have two Whitehall Hammond clocks featuring Hirsch figures on them, a pirate with a saber, and another harlequin lady clock.

      The other New Haven clock with the two partially nude men on each side of the movement stringing chains between them, I have no clue as who made the figures maybe the same company who made yours.

      You have a stunning clock, absolutely beautiful.

      Russell
    11. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Inky!
    12. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Russell! I guess we both are in the same boat to some degree ;) I am wondering if the bottom inscription "made in Italy 529" is some indication, or is it that the marble was machined in Italy? Hmmm I would like to get this clock running and think I am going to look for the exact vintage electric clock motor if its not too expensive to replace. I found this cleaning out my Father's house after he passed away. This is was our oldest family house, home to 90 years of heritage. The funny part about it, I live in South Carolina, I was born in Conn, and grew up until 11 years old in New Haven!! It was just laying in the attic between the joists down in the insulation, almost hidden. Thank you all for your help! Greatly appreciated!
    13. SEAN68 SEAN68, 10 years ago
      Shes very very beautiful!!! welcome to cw!!
    14. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Sean and glad I found this treasure! The site I speak of! :)
    15. SEAN68 SEAN68, 10 years ago
      Your very welcome utherrr!!!
    16. Bruce99 Bruce99, 10 years ago
      Welcome to CW utherrr, and what a beautiful clock! I agree that the New Haven Clock is almost incidental to the piece. It was obviously selected by the maker of your clock and beautifully integrated into your lady's pose. The only thing I can add is that the hands were referred to as part number "54322 Westinghouse" circa 1936 as found on page 403 of Tran Duy Ly's New Haven reference book (circa listed at the top of the page). Thanks for sharing.
    17. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Bruce!!
    18. Chadakoin Chadakoin, 10 years ago
      If you do a Google search for "Movier" or "J.B. Hirsch" and "Cleopatra" you'll find some other examples of how this figure was produced as a stand-alone piece and for lamps. I didn't come across any other clock usages. Phil has a photo of a catalog page that includes this figure here:
      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/111680-contemplar-or-gerdago-girl-bookends-by-h
    19. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Chadakoin! I'm starting to think that maybe this clock is from an obscure minor clock maker, not a known company. The machining of the two alabaster parts, especially the clock exterior would seem exhaustive to only produce a few of these. I would think a major company would have produced them in bulk. I keep going back to the Made in Italy engraving. Why would New Haven Clock parts be used by a clock maker in Italy, and then exported out of Italy?









    20. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Here are some subtle but major differences with my piece and the pieces on both of the above links with the Cleopatra figural and base. 1) The base of mine is over and inch longer than both of the other examples and alabaster machined and beveled from a rectangle to an oval base. 2) Mine has the addition of rounded stone feet, which mate up with recesses in the bottom of the base. 3) The power cord runs from the clock, through the bottom of the alabaster clock exterior, through the hand and arm through the bottom of the base. The alabaster of the base and clock alabaster exterior are matching. 4) "Made in Italy" 529 is engraved on bottom base.
    21. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Phil! Have you seen any numbers next to Made in Italy on your other pieces? What us your opinion of the number 529? Maybe the item number in series of a lot?
    22. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      All this great information! yet still, no answer :( Its so much fun finding out and learning about the history. I may have found a new hobby!!
    23. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Another piece of information I have gleaned from my older sisters recently. This clock belonged to my deceased great aunt, who lived in New Haven during from 1930's-1960's. Her and my other great aunts owned property in New Haven, and they were known to move in affluent and semi affluent social circles as cooks, nannys, and one married a popular race horse jockey. So there is a chance that this clock was either given to them or bought new in Connecticut. I also wonder if this could be a prototype that was never mass produced, and maybe even given to one of them as a gift! Oh how one's imagination can roam with the possibilities! Its all just really exciting to consider. How I wish my great aunt was alive so I could tell her I love her!...then ask her about the clock! ;)
    24. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you and much appreciated Phil.

    25. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Yes Phil! yet still this clock has not been found tied to any model number anywhere, nor any image of it except mine. Whatever the answer is lies somewhere in a book, or designs or in the grave I am starting to conclude. I have scoured the internet for just images and like many here, have come up empty handed. This may be an obscure project by someone a long time ago, not even recorded. Still it is lovely. I would like it to run. I wonder how accessible an identical working replacement clock is. The new cord would just have to be run through the piece. Is so nice to look at.

      Question. Would reconditioning this to run again and clean it up, effect its worth or value. Would doing that qualify it to be worth something at an auction, or to an antiques dealer? I really don't know.
    26. Bruce99 Bruce99, 10 years ago
      Well, this is certainly not a common clock. With the fit and finish of the stone I really don't think it was re-purposed (but I could be wrong).

      Your point is well taken that the clock (as a whole) was most likely made here and not in Italy. Somebody had the resources to commission work in Italian stone, the Hirsch Foundry (or the source for this mold) and an electric New Haven Clock Movement. My guess (and that's all it is) is that the New Haven Clock Company would be the most likely entity looking to find a market for this clock. Unless some other information turns up I think that your theory that this may have been a prototype of some sort sounds very possible. Still, someone could have been catering to those with means by hand-crafting functional works of art on a small scale.

      I mostly work with antique mechanical clocks so I really can't help with your inquiry regarding costs of restoration. Those "fasteners" on the back of the clock don't look like they would be easy to remove without damage. The Electric Clock and Art Deco Clock Collection Heavy Hitters have already weighed in so I defer to their expertise. This is a very interesting piece. Above and beyond being an "heirloom" I would think it must have a fair amount of value as is. If you do have the clock restored, have it done properly with period appropriate materials if possible. For gosh sake, don't have someone slap a battery powered quartz movement in it! :)

    27. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Bruce! Perhaps I should just have some patience with any restoration ideas. The fasteners on the back of the clock are tiny old nuts and it appears they unscrew, I'm not sure. Thanks again!
    28. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Its all so very fascinating to me. Thank you all for the help, and I'm learning so much! I'm jus sitting back a student right now Phil, enjoying my lessons!
    29. Bruce99 Bruce99, 10 years ago
      If properly done, restoring the clock to function should increase its value at auction. But I do agree that it "may" cost more to do so than it would be "worth" which is why you have to be careful buying clocks at auction. The devil is in the details and there are lots of ways to hide flaws in clock works.

      Of course you know that one never really knows at an auction. It only takes two serious collectors to bid up the price. On the other hand, well known and well attended auction houses charge quite a premium for access to their market.

      Restoring the clock would be more for your own enjoyment. Let your heirs worry about how much it's worth. :)
    30. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      I agree! I'm not a collector, and even though the clock is awesome, if it is not functional, then I don't really have a place for it. Also I don't have any idea of a value so I wouldn't consider leaving it as an heirloom. Right now it is a great Art Deco decoration! It just doesn't fit with my decorating scheme! :)
    31. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Are there auctions or events where people trade items rather than just buying and selling? If so I may be able to trade the clock for another type of decoration that would be a nice addition to my home!
    32. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      You know what, I'm not going to attempt to restore it at all. I'm learning a lot from you all and initially curious about it as an object that was just pleasing to look at but without functionality. I'm learning that it is seemingly desired somewhat, and that is exciting as well! I am open to new ideas!
    33. Bruce99 Bruce99, 10 years ago
      If you do decide to restore functionality and opt for a modern movement, be *sure* to save the original.
    34. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you Bruce!
    35. Chadakoin Chadakoin, 10 years ago
      I just noticed this listing on Etsy for a sculptural clock that appears to use the same New Haven clock and alabaster case as yours. Unfortunately, seller provides zero information. Perhaps you could contact them directly if you're interested.

      https://www.etsy.com/listing/167464225/new-haven-art-deco-harlequin-mantle?ref=sr_list_25&ga_search_query=clock&ga_view_type=list&ga_ship_to=US&ga_order=date_desc&ga_page=2&ga_search_type=vintage
    36. utherrr utherrr, 10 years ago
      Thank you!! This is the first photo I have seen of the clock case on another piece!!!

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