Posted 8 years ago
AnnaB
(85 items)
This bottle is from my latest dig. When i found it, i was actually disappointed thinking "what is this modern thing doing in here", but something stopped me from tossing it aside. Upon washing it i realized it's probably not that recent... After spending hours on SHA, i have more questions than answers. Here's what i've "dug":
1. The bottle seems to be machine-made because seams run all the way to the top and the base doesn't have mold seams across. However, i've never seen a machine-made bottle with this top (double-collar). SHA says that "this finish is uncommon after the late 1880s except on some liquor bottles where this finish type was used well into the 20th century, including on some single malt scotch bottles today." So, presumably, it's a post-1903 machine-made liquor bottle...
2. Per SHA, i also understand that a presence and/or number of bubbles can't be a reliable indicator of age, however such imperfections were greatly reduced in machine-made bottles. This one has a ton of them, which means it might still be an early machine-made bottle (1903-??)
3. I can't figure out the circle mark on the bottom. It doesn't match the valve ejection or suction scar marks i see on SHA. It almost looks like this smooth and perfect ring was intended as part of the mold. What is it/what is it for?
4. The top has a chip on the rim which broken off in an unusual fashion uncovering another perfectly smooth and rounded rim underneath. I'm not sure how to explain it.
Sorry for a long post that's more of a Show & Ask, and not the best pics, my camera didn't want to cooperate. Any insight and clarification is much appreciated.
Few machines were employed before 1906. If the seam hitting the top makes a little rough bump at the top, it's of good age (I think I see it).
The top is unusual but not unheard of in machine-made bottles; it continued past 1900 in Britain. Glass often fractures conchoidaly, thus producing a smooth, round fracture like a scalloped edge or good bend. That might explain the 'other' lip you're seeing. Albeit there could be other possibilities.
The ring on the base may or may not have had much of a function, but I agree that it isn't appearing to be an ejection 'scar'. "Stippling" (all those little dots on bottles' bottoms) was done, supposedly, to keep the bottle from sliding when wet on a table. Of course, most of us doubt this did any good other than to make dating some bottles a bit difficult (when they need the dot to read the date-code.)
You may find the top in here:
https://www.sha.org/bottle/igco_1906.htm
Look down for liquor bottles, which have a wide variety. These were machine-made in 1906. (Note that this one shows a similar top: https://www.sha.org/bottle/Typing/IGCo1906/IGCo1906page146.jpg )
It sounds like you read this, but if not:
https://www.sha.org/bottle/machinemadedating.htm
As an interesting note, it took half an hour to type this cuz mom jut kept talking about a lamp and floor. LOL.
Thank you, Spirit. It will take me a few more hours to study this information lol ...I wish they published a book! I inspected the bottle again, and noticed that the horizontal seams around the base and under the top that are signs of a machine-made process are not there. There are only two vertically running seams from bottom to top with a little bump as you pointed out (the other one was unfortunately chipped away). Could it have been made in a semi-automatic machine?
Also, I compared it to the other similar but older bottle i have (smaller size, no seams, same top) and noticed that the posted one is full of bubbles and defects while the older one barely has any. Strange.
Mom is mom, it's probably her way of getting your attention =)
There were multiple kinds of machines, but it is strange that it sounds like it's only a two-piece mold that is not tooled. Somewhere I have or had one I put a date on and has similar features like the raised ridge at the top, but I just boxed up a number of bottles to sell and it may be in there.
I have one particularly fascinating bottle where it has 4 seams. One cuts right through the embossing, suggesting two seams to be accidental.
As I see no tooling striations around the neck, it is most certainly fully machine-made (if this is correct).
With unmarked and weirdly-made bottles, I usually blame the East Coast of the US and Europe. I have one European wine were the seams on the mouth come no where near connecting with the seams on the body.
The glass used was either from the 'bottom of the barrel' (if I recall correctly, that is where many bubbles come from as the machine also sucks up air, but I cannot recall the millions of terms) or was of fairly low quality.
Well, she's gonna buy the lamp and we decided on the replacement floor since our second dog ruined the current floor, which had replaced the last floor that was in the house when we moved.
I will post it on a site and see what others have to say. It is a shame that old Red cannot see well enough to come on anymore. He spent much of his 86 years studying glass and setting up plants around the world.
Thanks, Spirit, interesting information! So is it possible to put an approximate date on it? I imagine i should abandon the idea of figuring out the maker =)
What was the age of other items you dug there?
Very miscellaneous and very sparce which is another mystery...It looked like a dip in the ground covered with rocks, and you'd never know it was a dump if i didn't find a small beer bottle on the surface c.1970-80 and Four Roses wiskey bottle from prohibition era. There was a partially broken embossed soda bottle from early 1900s, two small machine made medicine bottles with measuring marks, a mini clear glass vessel i think c.1950s, some plastic electrical device my guess mid-century, too, a couple of car rims, remains of vintage cloth and one scared salamander. Any idea how this lot could have come together? All glass, albeit being dug up, was in good shiny condition upon washing, no white or rust stains. It doesn't appear that this "dump" has been burned but i couldn't dig deeper because of the rocks and compacted soil. Worth coming back?
If it was all moved in recent years, then things get mixed. If older is atop newer, then that is likely the case.
Or people kept using the spot. My first milk bottle I found was circa 1928-1932 and was the only old thing before the '60s, with most stuff being 1980s to modern.
Do you feel it might be worth going back?
I would love to go back if i knew there was more interesting stuff there...i guess i can talk to the owner, see if he knows. Not sure how useful it will be though, he told me about that "great" location that turned out to be an awful '80 dump Lol
You found a few things. I thoroughly and repeatedly (over weeks or months or, now, years) check an area that shows old shards.
My last dig turned up a debossed (sunken in lettering) brick and a credit card in the parking lot (credit card soon made its way to Police Station, again).
Of course, some guy parked his truck (to watch me) between me and my car, so when I picked up my brick and began walking toward him, he quickly left. I assume he thought it was destined to go through his windshield or skull.
No dig goes without a story lol
Any dig can be made into a story.
that is so true =)
http://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?686612-Bottle-Question
Forgot the link. LOL.
Spirit, thank you so much for this! It's very helpful.