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Posted 13 months ago
stepback_a…
(347 items)
This Marine jacket and cap were worn by a WW II vet who served in the Pacific during WW II. The rank is that of a staff sargeant. The FMF-PAC shoulder patch denotes Fleet Marine Force Pacific. The quartermaster stamp dates 1943. The jacket features the "Ruptured Duck" on the right breast. The ribbons are as follows: Philippine Defense Medal with Star, American Campaign Medal, Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal with Star, Purple Heart, Navy Presidential Unit Citation with star, and the Presidential Unit Citation with Oak Leaf. I hope I am right about the ribbons.
Hey guys I found the missing ribbon bar in one of the pockets. Let me know the correct order if you can,
Thanks
You are correct with the ribbons. The order of the ribbons on the jacket is not correct. Everything on the bottom row is higher than those on the top row. I am not sure how the Navy/ USMC works in the unit awards-- I believe they are worn with personal medals/ ribbons.
In the Army, unit awards are worn on the other side of the uniform-- it would be in the area below the "ruptured duck".
Thanks for sharing,
Scott
CORRECT ORDER ...
Purple Heart Medal,
American Campaign Medal,
Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal with Star,
Presidential Unit Citation with Oak Leaf
Navy Presidential Unit Citation with star,
Philippine Defense RIBBON with Star,
No true Marine Sgt. put those awards on the bars. A foreign award first? The Purple Heart 4th after campaign medals? There is no way a real Marine would have made those mistakes on his uniform, especially having been in long enough to be a Staff Sgt.
The two presidential unit citations are higher than campaign medals.
I like the way the Army separates unit awards from individual awards. The Presidential Unit Citation is the unit equivalent of the Distinguished Service Cross (2nd to the MOH) and looks odd to me below a Purple Heart, Bronze Star, or Commendation Medal when worn by a Marine or Sailor.
Scott
I like the way the Navy/USMC does it. I prefer personal awards over unit awards.
Here is a USMC "Ribbon Checker" site, to get them right.
http://kepler.pratt.duke.edu/USMCRibbons.html
AR8Jason, I guess it is based on what we know and are used to. I, an Army guy, like the "Army way" and you, a Navy veteran, like the "Navy way".
It just all adds to collector confusion!
I was taught there were only three ways. The Right Way, the Wrong Way and the Navy Way. ... now you tell me there is an Army Way as well? Confusing.
I'm really confused now I always thought it was the Marine way, lol
That is what's great about this site. Any new collector researching their family items would believe what ever they would find out about their specific branch of the service and then would probably stop looking. By having all branches represented here we learn the big picture. There isn't a right or wrong just a service branch specific order. Thanks to all of you.
Don't be silly Kerry. The Marine way is the Navy Way. The Department of the Navy Way.
Savoy ... the knowledge of the whole is the the sum of the knowledge of each part that participates. (Sounds good anyway)
When it comes to military items, no one person can know it all. There is simply too much to know. It helps to have resources and know how to research. It helps if you have served and learned over time one branches way.
There are some major differences in the branches of service and some areas of commonality. There are even some less obvious differences in Eras of a single service. This variety is part of what makes the field of Collecting Militaria interesting.
Yeah, what you said...
The details to a uniform and their importance is one reason movies and TV shows hire people to make sure their uniforms are "authentic." One detail off will stand out to a vet as well with other knowledgeable persons. A few years ago there was a major motion picture production that used the wrong flag in a scene. It was a 50 star flag in a WWII scene or a Civil war scene (I don't remember which). It was for many a very distracting mistake and clearly unnecessary.
It is these details and differences that often trip up fake vets. A man dressed as a Marine Colonel, at the Marine Ball, excused himself to go the the latrine (Army/Air Force term for "bathroom." It was enough to put over the top suspicions of a Marine vet at the same table. The vet at his table asked to photograph the Col. and his ribbons. The man was proved and arrested as a fake. A less than honorably discharged, enlisted, Air Force vet, was trying to pass himself off as a USMC highly decorated officer. The miss use of terms for the restroom sparked a vets already suspicious mind and the "fruit salad" was the topper. A Marine would have used the Naval terminology, "head."
One of the things all branches of service taught their recruits, was "Attention to Detail."
I always remember my drill sergeant saying-- there are two ways to do anything: "My way or the f _ _ _ ing highway".
Would you believe our Company Commanders never cussed? ... I didn't think so. Even I wouldn't believe that.
I got a brand new CC and he made a lot of mistakes on us. One day he got so into working us out on the grinder that he forgot to get us to chow. The head cook read him the riot act because his cooks had to stay to correct his mistake by making sandwiches for 80 men. We were required to have 3 meals a day.
The first week he ticked off the base Chaplain by not permitting anyone to go to divine services. The base Captain (who shared my last name) was very religious and required Sunday to be a day of rest, Blue Jacket Manuel, Letters home and the Bible. Instead he had us Turtle-Waxing the deck.
Another one was having recruits wash his car every week. The Division Officer was not very happy about that nor him failing to handle internal strife.
I wondered if he made it very long as a CC or if they decided it was not for him. He was the only E-5 Company Commander that I ever saw.
Thanks everyone for your comments. This is the way the ribbons were when I got the jacket.
Maybe it was an error by a family member?
It looks like it is an easy fix: move the bottom row to the top and then flip the new bottom row (a point on the stars should face up, but in WW2 era items I don't see them always arranged that way).
Scott
I just looked up the Phillipine ribbon and it has the one star at the top, so a "flip" would make it upside down!
The Phillipine ribbon was awarded to early war defenders of the island, so it may have held a significant importance to the marine.
I have seen ribbon bars that are correctly arranged, just put on upside down. That is not the case here. Depending on the bar type and style a fix is easy. Post 2 lists the correct order. The OP has the ribbons basically ID. Take the ribbons off (unless sewed on, some are sewn through the bar, but not likely these) and place them in order as post two points out. It should not be hard at all.
The order in post #2 is not correct-- the two Presidential Citations are higher than the Campaign ribbons.
The lower bar is correct: PH, Navy PUC, Army PUC
Scott is correct in post 19. A Presidential Unit Citation does come before Campaign medals.
Actually, I would take the ribbons off all together. It is unlikely these ribbons belong to this uniform.
Two awards of the Navy Presidential Unit Citation is admirable (and possible for a Marine) but how did he get two awards of the Army or Air Force Presidential Unit Citation as well? Very few Army/AF PUC were handed out in the Pacific. Very strange that this Marine would have gotten one, much less two. (4 PUCs would make him one short of the legendary Chesty Puller, for his entire career.) Also, early on, the issue of a second Navy PUC was noted by a BLUE star. Later it was changed to bronze.
The clencher for me, and should have been immediately obvious, is the WWII Victory Medal (Ribbon) or more correctly the lack of one. As a WWII vet, indicated by the American and Asiatic Medals, he some how did not get the WWII Victory Medal??? If he was awarded those medals he was awarded the Victory Medal and there is no place on this ribbon set for it so it is not just missing.
Criteria: The WW II Victory Medal was awarded to all military personnel for service between 7 December 1941 and 31 December 1946.
I believe these are a completely put together group.
BTW A much better site than "Ribbon Checker" is
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/branches.html
... but they won't a line these ribbons.
All or some may be wrong.
Are they all mounted on the same bars or are there two separate bars? Photographs of the back may confirm that they are at least WW2 manufacture.
Scott
Hey guys, I found the missing ribbon bar in the pocket. It has the ribbon for the WW II Victory Medal, the American Defense Medal with Star, and the Marine Good Conduct Medal. Please let me know the correct order of ribbons if possible.
Thanks,
Mike
Good Conduct
American Defense
American Campaign
Asiatic Pacific Campaign
Victory Medal
Phillipine
Scott ... you listed 6 of the now nine.
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/branches.html
Find your order using this site. You will not find a choice for the Army PUC. Put it immediately after the Navy PUC.
Yep-- after your previous post, I tend to agree that the PUCs don't really make any sense (so I didn't include them in the fray).
It is very rare for Army units to have a Navy PUC-- I think it would be equally rare for Navy unit to have the Army PUC, much less two.
Scott
The more I think of this, the less I want to think of this. Therefore the link.
The whole value, is little more than the sum of the parts in this case.