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DOCUMENTATION, FOR SCOTT

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Art Nouveau1601 of 1689KRALIK BAROK VASEPORCELAIN MERMAID
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Posted 3 years ago

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Alfredo
(520 items)

Here they are, from the Butler Brothers 1900 catalog. Deb Pedersen made the composite picture, which includes my vase (third from left to right). These vases can be classified as "Victorian Bohemian", though they are really a hybrid, "Victorian Art Nouveau Bohemian". They look Victorian but reflect the Art Nouveau aesthetic of organic form as well.

Comments

  1. IVAN49 IVAN49, 3 years ago
    It is curious that most of the glass shown here and imported to USA has never reached European market. It is seldom seen, if ever, even in areas that belonged to Austria – Hungary Empire, or at least I haven’t seen it – particularly those with applied flowers which would surely had attracted my attention. Mr.A.Villanueva did a tremendous job to identify this glass and we all appreciate his effort very much.
  2. Alfredo Alfredo, 3 years ago
    IVAN, THEY ALSO LANDED IN ENGLAND, AS BRITISH! THESE WERE SMALL FRY GLASS, THE KIND THAT WAS DESTROYED BY THE THOUSANDS IN THE SUCCESSIVE WARS. FROM WW1 TO WW2 . AND BESIDES, THEY WERE KITSCH, PERFECTLY ATTUNED TO LOWER MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN TASTE! I NOW FIND THEM CHARMING. I RESPECT THE LOWER CLASSES.
  3. scottvez scottvez, 3 years ago
    Thank you, Sir.

    I appreciate your knowledge and insight into these. You have been very helpful. As a 20 year collector, I had always been told that these were "Stevens and Williams". Over the years, I became aware that many dealers attribute anything applied to Stevens and Williams. I always liked these types, but thought that the UK attribution may not be accurate.

    Thanks to this site and your generous help, I now know for sure.

    Thanks again,

    Scott
  4. Alfredo Alfredo, 3 years ago
    THE BUTLER BROTHERS CATALOGS ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO UNDERSTAND THE FLOW OF BOHEMIAN/CZECH/TANGO GLASS INTO AMERICA. NOTHING MORE THRILLING THAN TO FIND YOUR GLASS IN THEIR PAGES!
  5. LoetzDance LoetzDance, 3 years ago
    Thanks, Al! Great work on this research! Helping us connect the dots to the Butler Brothers catalog with examples of the actual glass is extremely valuable to all of glass collectors. Deb
  6. Ken, 3 years ago
    Alfredo I have the greatest respect & admiration for you & your work in the art glass community, however I believe you have to use caution when using the Butler Bros. catalogs & their rather primative illustrations to positively attribute an area of importation since Butler Bros. simply uses terms such as "Fancy Imported Glassware" when only a few pieces are specifically identified as Bohemian & while other pieces may be from that region, the BB catalogs should not be used to absolutely, positively attribute a region when in many cases it simply states "Imported". For instance the use of the word imported could also include Italy & the Murano region. Specifically I refer to the photo of the JIP at the far right which in several references has for decades been attributed as Boston & Sandwich using B&S catalogs & I am assuming it is supposed to match the far left illustration under Glazed Upright Rose Bowls which has no specific detail regarding hand tooling with the exception that they resemble one another in basic design. In this case I do not believe a Butler Bros. catalog illustration under imported glass should be used in conjunction with a pictured JIP that that has been positively attributed to Boston & Sandwich unless of course the previous Boston & Sandwich attibution can be disproven by solid documentation which in my opinion cannot be achieved merely by using a Butler Bros. catalog as a resource. I believe while the Butler Bros. catalogs are a good resource for showing areas where glass was imported, I do not believe it offers the solid documentation nor specificity for attribution (unless specified in the catalog ad) especially in the light of the era of late 19th century to early 20th century where it could be a case of who copied who (Europe/America) in design during this period. Again I have the utmost respect for your work in the art glass field & your contributions are legendary & am certainly not in disagreement with your research, I am simply saying at times caution should be used when using a non-specific catalog such as Butler Bros.
  7. Alfredo Alfredo, 3 years ago
    We all have different opinions. The thing about Bohemian glass is that it managed to copy other glass from different countries to the point that nowadays it is sold as British or American. BB catalogs are quite specific as to provenance, particularly
    Bohemian and Czech.
  8. Alfredo Alfredo, 3 years ago
    Dandy. It so happens I have scanned all of the relevant pages from each of the catalogs. How do I send it to you? I don't think I have your address. Mine is alfavil@aol.com. The particular catalog is from 1900 and I bought it from the West Virginia Museum of American Art.
  9. Ken, 3 years ago
    Obscurities I guess we will have to agree to disagree on some points. You see this has come up before a number of years ago (its not new) & I most certainly agree that BB catalogs show that glass was imported but in a great many cases BB catalogs can be both specific & non-specific regarding country or import origin & I would have to respectfully disagree with your opinion that it is not logical to assume that Butler would have mixed product from different countries in shipments. Logic has little bearing regarding BB. For instance under "Fancy Imported Glassware" there are pieces specific as to being Bohemian yet within that section there are pieces that lack any specific identification as to country/region of importation therefore its an assumption, nothing more, nothing less, that all those pieces that follow, not specifically identified as Bohemian must be Bohemian when they could be Austrian, German, English, etc. You cannot prove beyond doubt, especially when it come to using the primitive (by modern standards) images in the early BB catalogs, that pieces not specifically identified as Bohemian are of Bohemian manufacture simply because the designs may have also been manufactured in many other countries outside Bohemia. We can agree that early attributions were in many cases faulty & incorrect, however in using primitive images & identifying same as being Bohemian when Bohemia is not specified regarding a piece in BB catalogs to build a case is tantamount to doing exactly what you object to, possible singular attribution errors when there may be more that one attribution source. If there were photographs involved that showed significant detail of pieces that proved beyond doubt country of origin, well that would certainly help clarify everything, but that doesn't appear to be the case in this instance.

    In a nutshell this is what I have a problem with. Anointing Bohemia as the primary source for multiple single attributions using a primitive resource when other possibilities exist for multiple attributions outside Bohemia. BB catalog ads are a decent resource that shows types of glass imported from Bohemia, beyond that they prove nothing more especially if Bohemia is not specified within the ad.

    One final note & this is a bit unrelated. The word Czech is thrown around a lot these days & from a purely technical standpoint I fail to see the accuracy using Czech as a catch all prior to 1918. I agree that many glass manufacturers were located within the region that became Czechoslovakia, however using the term Czech when addressing glass production prior to 1918 seems to be inaccurate, but I guess its become the norm. I only mention this in regard to BB catalogs before 1918. Bye the way I also have a great deal of respect for you (first name withheld) & as Alfredo said...we all have different opinions & sometimes I just swim upstream. No harm I hope in a discussion.
  10. Alfredo Alfredo, 3 years ago
    Just for the record, a Glasshound friend sent me the following. It should dispel any doubts about the word Czech.
    In the middle of the 7-th century Slavic tribes formed a settlement at Prague and called themselves Cesi (plural), Czech (singular).
    A celtic tribe living there in the first millennium before Christ was by the Western world called BOYAR, hence the name Bohemia.
    The Czech never liked the name Bohemia.

    (out of "Prague, city of Arts")
  11. Ken, 3 years ago
    Craig granted that when I used "purely technical" regarding Czech, it was just that... "purely technical" & I really don't have much of an issue using it prior to 1918...just thought it was interesting that the term was used addressing the glass production in a region prior to it becoming a country, but its not what I'd call an seriously important issue when used to Categorize the region when talking about glass production.

    Alfredo. So my question to your friend would be, Are you merely focusing on the Czechs & ignoring the Slovaks who worked in the glass industry? Remember its Czechoslovakia & I do believe both subcultures were compatriots.

    I'll use email to discuss this further.
  12. Alfredo Alfredo, 2 years ago
    Interesting. Now that you mention it, I have never seen a piece of glass marked Slovakia, nor do the experts differentiate as to Czech and Slovakian glass.
  13. Alfredo Alfredo, 2 years ago
    In Spanish, when people make simple tings complicated, we say they are looking for the cat's fifth leg. When I identify something as Bohemian, it is because the BB catalogs have specifically cataloged it as such. As far as "having been proven Welz" I am still waiting for documented evidence, particularly in light of recent research developments asserting Kralik was the dominant glasshous of the period, and the historical fact of a marriage between the Kralik and Welz families.

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