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Hamilton Piping Rock | Hamilton and Illinois Wristwat…67 of 67 |  |  |
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Posted 3 years ago
brunorob
(24 items)
17 Jewel 14K White Gold 987A Movement
Just found out this is a 1928 case, with correct 1928 dial but the hands are incorrect and the movement is not correct. Still a beautiful watch and runs great.
http://bobswatches.webnode.com/
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What a nice picture of a Great watch. I went to bobswatches and looked at your collection. I really like the way you shoot your watches.
As for the Piping Rock, I am in search of a true Yankee watch. Any info you have would be welcome.
Brian
Hi Brian
Thank you for your very nice comment about the watch and the photos on my web site. I never thought I would ever get a chance to own this watch but I got lucky and got a good deal. Good luck with getting a true Yankee Piping Rock. I can't even imagine what that would cost. That would truly be something to see.
Bob
It's very unique how you photograph your watches on top of old photographs. Do you also collect the photographs that you are using as backdrops? How do you decide which photos to use? Would love to see some of the photos in the photographs show & tell! Thanks for sharing.
Hi camerafan
I just get the photos from the internet. I try to use a photo from the era the watch was made. Trying to show some history from that time period. If you would like to see more pictures like this go to my watch page http://bobswatches.webnode.com/ And thanks for your comments.
Bob
A great looking watch. I too like the way you precisely choose photos that match the year of the watch (e.g., 1945, the famous photo in Times Square when the sailor kissed the nurse on the day of the Japanese surrender, or 1963, when James Bond movies were making their inroads into the U.S., and the photo of JFK, who was assassinated that year). One day I'd like to own a Piping Rock.
It appears you also do restorations and repairs. What would be an average price for such? I have a Hamilton Boulton of 1940s-50s vintage in need of both. Thanks.
Hamiltonfan, Thank you for your comments about my watch and photos. I'm always happy to talk with a fellow collector and someone who can appreciate the beauty and history behind them. As for the restoration and repairs I only wish I had the talent to do it myself. I am fortunate to have two master watchmakers in my area, and a third that I used for a dial restoration on a 1945 Bulova. I paid $300.00 for the redial, probably $100.00 too much, but you have to be careful with redials. There are some real butchers out there. Restoring a watch is like restoring a car. Parts and labor. So the average cost just depends on what the watch needs. My 45 Bulova needed a complete mechanical restoration and I paid $145.00. I thought that was a fair price considering the movement was just a hunk of rust when I gave it to the watchmaker.
Thanks again
Bob http://bobswatches.webnode.com/
First off, the photo posted here is the 1928 version NOT the 1948 Piping Rock. this fact is unmistakeable since the center case, the lugs, the dial, the movement, and the hands are different. The ONLY think about this nice posted example that is from the 1948 edition is the hands... these are the type on the 1948 Piping Rock and do not match this 1928 watch. As for locating one of the few dozen Piping Rocks given to the 1928 Yankees... GOOD LUCK! A couple of them are in the Baseball Hall of Fame, most are owned by Baseball colllectors, and a couple are unaccounted for. An acquaitance of mine owns one... and it's not for sale. IF memory serves, the last one available sold for $50,000. They are engraved on the side with each players name... and I have a photo if you'd like to see one. You can mechanical but MODERN copies (plated not solid gold) from the 1980s that normally sell for around $500 or so.
Hi Rick
I have to respectfully disagree with you about the model of this Piping Rock. According to Complete Guide to Watches 2010 edition the 28 model is a 19 jewel 979 movement and the 48 is a 17 jewel with a 747 movement which is what this watch is, also the watch was sold to me as the 48 model.
Bob
Bob,
I can't tell which movement you have unless you post the photo. That said, the 3 photos postred above are CLEARLY the 1928 model. For confirmation and info on early Hamiltons, please check out the terrific website written/hosted by Will Roseman at: http://www.hamiltonwatch.info While there, if you look, you will likely see his 1928 example of the original YANKEES Piping Rock -- he owns one of the original 35 made.
As far as the "Guide" you referenced... it is a DEADFUL resource. I've not noticed that they have the Piping Rock listing wrong, specifically, but since it is arguably best for lining a birdcage, I would not be too surprised if it got this wrong also! You could also send a photo of your Piping Rock to Rene Rondeau... Rene wrote the best 2 books on Hamilton wristwatches. I'm sure he could tell you what you have in about 2 seconds. Rene's website is: http://rondeau.net/ (IF you look up Hamilton on wikipedia, both Rene and Will are referenced.) HAVE FUN!
The best example of a 1948 Piping Rock I could locate easily is one currently for sale on eBay. (NOT MINE!!) The listing # is 330546780851. You should notice that the back is very different, the lugs (a weakness on the 1928 model) are strengthened and the hinges are not longer visable from the side of the case, the main skeleton frame is thinner overall, and the lower case is thicker aboce the hinged lugs -- and it protrudes up to keep the lugs from hyper-extending forward. You will see that the dial is different (Hamilton wraps in a circle in a san-serif font), and the hands are different than the original 1928 spade/arrow hands (although they are like your examples hands). The 1948 Piping Rock is more rare because it was not nearly as popular and sold far less (especially in white) but to my eyes the 1928 edition is MUCH nicer looking. (I think most collectors agree with me and price the 1928 higher accordingly.) Your example is a beauty!! (But I'd suggest locating another set of correct hands from a similarly-aged Hamilton.)
Ok Rick now I'm totally confused!The watch was listed by the seller as a 48 with a 747 movement. 17 jewels. That would be correct for a 48 Piping Rock right?
Well after seeing your last post I decided to open the case and see just what I have for myself. To my surprise I have a 17 jewel 987A movement! That wouldn't be correct for the 28 or the 48. Also since your first post I've been doing some research and found out the 48 did not have numbers on the sub dial. Mine does. I'm starting to think I have a Frankenwatch. What do you think? I have posted a picture of the movement above. I will certainly be visiting the websites you suggested. I'm going to leave it as a 48 until I can figure this thing out. Thank you very much for your input.
Bob
Bob,
I can no longer see your photos. However, yes, the 1948 PR does not have numbers in the seconds track but the 1928 edition does. (This and the curved sans-serif HAMILTON are the main differences in the 1948 dial.) Again, the hands was all that I saw wrong with your VERY nice example was the hands... and that is a relatively simple fix. I DO NOT think what you have is a Franken at all! :)
The reason I did not comment on your movement is because the 1928 Piping Rock was first sold with the 987A movement and then later with the 979 movement. If memory serves, the Piping Rock, Hastings, and Meadowbrook were the first watches that Hamilton offered the 979 movement as a few $ upgrade... so all 3 watches can have either the 987 or 979 movement in them. (Perhaps the Langley can also?) Piping Rocks were sold for quite a few years... not just in 1928. Frankly, I forget which is more typical (I think the 979, as they were likely used from about 1929-1936, or so), but either is correct as Hamilton released the 6/0-sized 979 shortly after releasing the 1928 PR... so the earliest ones had the 6/0-sized 987. And this is also EXACTLY the type of finer point that the "Guide" consistently gets wrong and why, IMHO, it is best used as bird-cage lining. :)
Rick, OK OK I'll go out and get a bird so I can line the gage with the book :)
I went to http://www.hamiltonwatch.info/Detail%20-%20Piping%20Rock%20-%20Yellow.htm According to the info on that site " the Piping Rock is fitted only with the Hamilton 19 jewel, 6/0 size movement No. 979" For 1928 anyway. Uh oh I'm confused again! I sent a email to Rene along with some photos asking for his opinion. Looking forward to his reply. Don't know whats been going on here at Collectors Weekly with the pictures but if you click on the blank photo it will show you the enlarged photo.
LOL!! If Rene has the production numbers handly, I'm pretty sure he will confirm that while the majority of 1928 Piping Rocks have the 979, quite a few were originally made with the 987. :) This should make your example a bit more rare... though, since the 987 was also a very common movement, I guess it's also possible that someone could have swapped-in a 987 as a replacement, not that it should matter either way... as it is still a beauty! :)
Rick I'm really hoping this watch is from the 20's or early 30's. I agree the 28 has a much nicer dial than the 48. I'm already on a quest to find the 28 hands.
again thanks for all the helpful info
Rick I just got a reply from Rene Rondeau........ Wow it's a frankenwatch :-(
Apparently the hands aren't even correct for a 48 PR. The 987A movement would not even fit into a 48 PR case. So what I have here is
1: a 1928 Piping Rock case
2: a 1928 Piping Rock dial
3: a set of hands from a hopefully 1948 Hamilton watch
4: a Hamilton 987A movement circa 1948 not from a Piping Rock
Put it all together and it = a very beautiful FRANKENWATCH
I"m feeling a little sick now!
Bob
LOL -- it's not all that bad. The case and dial are certainly nice and from the 1928 model Rene just confirmed for me that about 100 1928 PRs originally came with a 987. I knew the hands were (likely) from a 48 but all the rest of the visable watch is from a 28. 987 or 987A is likely not a huge deal... you can pick-up a replacement 987 for $50 or less on eBay if it bothers you. (Frankly, I likely own 8-10 or so that I plan to use for parts... I don't even know how many might be 987A... perhaps 1 or 2. An extra 979 is harder to find, but you can locate one. HAVE FUN fixing it. :)
I'm going to try to find the correct hands first then I will see about getting the 979 mvt.
Can anyone tell me what the tap size is for the Piping Rock crown. Mine is lost and I'm searching for a replacement, original preferred of course.