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mystery vase

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Art Nouveau1406 of 1862Large 1902 Loetz Pink Phänomen Gre 2/450 Art Glass VaseLoetz Acid Cut Back Silberiris Vase  c.1902
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Posted 2 years ago

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MOcollector
(2 items)

bought this back in late 80's I realize it's art nouveau copper body with bronzite applied finish, brass handles with some type of applied finish. Just over 20 inches tall. I can't find the markings on it either. berlepsch-valendas? vierthaler? winhart? tiffany? When I bought it found an auction book with a similar vase, tiffany back from '81. Anyone know more about this vase?

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  1. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    Very intriguing. Can you post pictures of the bottom of the vase, not the mount? Is the base spun copper or hammered out like the rest? I find the design almost Deco in it's approach, but the mount is decidedly Art Nouveau. Is there wear or patina change around the copper where the mount has been resting against it? I wonder if this might be a marriage.
  2. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    German is a good idea. This isn't Vierthaler's style. Winhart & Co. isn't a bad thought, but the designer could be anyone. I'll dig around and see what I can find. If the mount is attached to the copper vase part, then please post a picture of that too.
  3. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    Brass legs are attached in this manner. Single small front and back legs set in base with 2 round head screws, hand made and cannot be used in different holes. Side brass pieces are combination legs and side handles. Each of those have the 2 round headed screws on the base and to top handle has a solded threaded piece to the handle tip attached to the vase side with a hand man nut, note not reversible with other side either. The hand made nature of these attaching hardware certainly dates this piece back. I certainly think to the 1880's; but, what do I know? Now to figure out how to post additional pix to this item.
  4. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    The base seems to be a soldered in round disk of copper first into a brass ring and then the brass ring is brazed or soldered to bottom. Please remember I have a untrained eye. The remainder is all hand hammered copper with the bronzite finish applied over it. The vase is round bottomed; therefore it could not stand on it own. So I tend to believe it is all original as is.
  5. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    I've seen the small circular dimple on the center bottom of documented Winhart & Co. pieces, so I'm leaning towards their firm. However, I don't think it is Vierthaler and the patination doesn't fit with Berlepsch-Valendas. Sadly, I don't know of any original Winhart catalogs, so an inventory of their production is largely unknown. In any event, you have a nice unusual form.
  6. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    I swear I see the word TIFFANY with 2 initials inside the top inside lip of the vase. Some see it too, some don't....I worry about mentioning this because of the confusion it will probably cause. But I have always had it in my mind that this is a C. L. Tiffany creation. When I first got this vase, I took it to the Chrysler Museum in Norfolk, VA and the Tiffany curator wouldn't confirm that it was; but, he wanted me to donate it to the museum.
  7. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    I'm pretty inclined to think it is German. Tiffany would have marked the piece much better and somewhere near the base, not the lip. Do you have a macro setting on your camera? A close up of the possible signature would help.
  8. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    Additionally, I did go to an old book shop just outside Old Dominion University and found an auction book from either 1979 or 1981, my poor memory. Therein was a C. L. Tiffany vase from 1882 that was 17 inches tall and of very similar design that had sold. Of course I have lost that written down info through the years.
  9. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    The brass ring on the bottom where the legs are attached could be slid over a spun piece on the bottom, then brazed in place making the vase solid copper with the brass attachments.
  10. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    It could be just a trick of the eye of the inside hammered surface. However, I don't see any lettering elsewhere in the hammering. I am using a cam on my computer....LOL, macro...no... There does seem to be a very small marking on the bottom. Either a shield or oak acorn with two spread legs coming of the bottom. Could just be a spurious aging mark too, nothing certainly stamped in as expected.
  11. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    This design would be too radical for pre-Art Nouveau, which didn't kick in until 1892 or so. Geometric vases in copper with brass mounts were the rage in Continential Europe and typical of German Jugendstil. And, to be frank, the worksmanship is a bit crude for Tiffany. They never would have let the piece out of the shop with the rough soldiering on the bottom. Winhart & Co. isn't Tiffany, but their production was well respected.
  12. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    I think applied finish to the brass was a gold wash. Additionally, if you note the collar at the top of the vase the leg/arm piece has been brazed to it and finely sanded; however, due to careless cleaning the joint is clearly visible now.
  13. cogito cogito, 2 years ago
    Ahhh...I bet that's Carl Deffner's mark. The brass/copper mix and geometric design would fit with his production.
  14. MOcollector, 2 years ago
    Too vague of a mark really no large shield with crossed axes....sigh...

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