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Posted 8 months ago

ks85
(153 items)

Here is another oval marked-non loetz piece.
I assume the loetz ones have a polished pontil, which is what gives this away as non loetz but am not 100% sure.

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Comments

1. dlfd911, 8 months ago
   Sure looks like Loetz to me, I have the same shape in red and black, also marked with the acid oval Loetz mark.
2. ks85, 8 months ago
   Thanks for the replies Dave and Craig.
   
   This is why I posted it up. As it is great to see experienced collectors/researcbers different opinions(read below).
   
   I do realize Loetz does not have to have a pontil as I had a few loetz pieces that did not have a pontil.
   
   I had originally sold this as loetz, because I had seen the same shape on Al's page and because it was marked. The buyer left feedback saying something like "wonderful piece but don't think it is Loetz".
   
   Later on I had asked Al about this and another piece, he has told me the one shown here is not loetz and likely Ruckl(iirc).
   
   Since Al said it is not loetz, I assumed the Loetz pieces that look like this have a polished pontil,( I haven't seen the base of any) . Probably should have explained myself better :).
   
3. ks85, 8 months ago
   Thanks for the loves everyone
4. Greatsnowyowl, 7 months ago
   there are a lot of pieces in the design books that have the word "abgeschliffen" ('scuse my misspelling of a long german word) as a designator of cut from the top. a pontil scar means that extra work went into a piece. It means it went to the fire a second time. all pieces were mold blown and then cut from the top or attached to a punty and put back in the fire for additions. ( at least that's my understanding. I could be partially wrong or missing a step)
   But yeah: all loetz has a pontil.. Myth..
5. scottvez, 7 months ago
   I'd agree with the point that "All Loetz has a pontil" is myth.
   
   However, I do think that the type of pontil (rough vs. smooth [or polished]) DOES speak to quality of the piece and can be used as a factor in the overall analysis of a piece to determine possible attributions.
   
   scott
6. ks85, 7 months ago
   Thanks for the like, loves and comments everyone.
   
   My reason for starting the thread was that the mark is not always a way to ID Loetz, but it looks like I may have been misinformed. It wasn't really to bring up the loetz/pontil discussion as I have seen a few of those. However I did learn a little more so I guess it all worked out :).
   
   Thanks for the info on the Welz procedure Craig, I had never really given much thought as to why their pieces lack a pontil.
   Thanks Alisa, I believe your reasoning as to why pontils are there is correct.
   
   Scottvez as far as I know any Loetz pieces, with a pontil, will have a polished pontil. Could be wrong though.
   
   For those unaware of the other oval mark, it can be seen here along with a pontilless(new word?) marked Loetz piece.
   
   http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/51667-oval-marks
   
   
7. scottvez, 7 months ago
   That is exactly the kind of attribution that I am talking about.
   
   While I don't know if ALL Loetz has a polished pontil (ALL and EVERY statements only take ONE to contradict); I would suspect that most do, thereby eliminating certain makers and vice versa (those with a rough pontil most likely don't come from Loetz).
   
   scott
8. Greatsnowyowl, 7 months ago
   there are instances where loetz can have a rough pontil. it's by far the exception to the rule but in cases where there are little feet or the base was too thin to polish out in the later war time era when they were on a very tight shoe string there were instances where the pontil was rough. I personally haven't seen one like this but that's what I hear. :) as a general rule though the cut and polished pontil scar is definitely a sign of quality. Loetz just went thru a period or two of a few lowered standards.

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