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geo26e's loves896 of 9347Tapa Cloth 3 PecesWhat is this called? Stone ware?
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    Posted 7 years ago

    Vrgdc
    (25 items)

    This is the other fabric that was in the box with the Tapa cloth. I am sure that it is Native American, but I'm not sure what it was used for, it's too thin to be a rug, too rough to be a towel, and it measures 4 feet by 26 inches. My guess is that it is a table cloth. If anyone out there knows for sure please chime in and all comments are welcome. Thanks.

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    Comments

    1. CanyonRoad, 7 years ago
      I do know for sure. It is not Native American, however, it is Mexican. This is a traditional Texcoco pattern weaving, from Texcoco, close to Mexico City.

      It's not Native American, because the Navajo are the only tribe that makes weaving similar to this, and their weaving is identified not by the design, but by the way they are woven. They will never be woven with fringe on both ends, because the Navajo use a unique type of upright loom, with a continuous warp, which makes it physically impossible to weave a rug with fringe on both ends.

      Mexican weavers (and the rest of the weaving world) use a partially mechanized floor loom, which is warped in such a way that a number of separate weavings can be made in a series, rather than having to warp the loom separately for each rug, like the Navajo do.

      These Texcoco textiles have been popular souvenir items for years. Smaller ones like this were probably used on a table top. The iconic pattern for Texcoco textiles consists of a central diamond, usually on this blue background, surrounded by a white band containing small designs...often what looks like an "S" or a "2", but sometimes this figure (which was discontinued in the 1940's due to its resemblance to the Nazi symbol.)

    2. Vrgdc Vrgdc, 7 years ago
      Thanks canyonroad for your input,
      You sure sound like you know what you are talking about. After doing a little research I have to disagree with your synopsis as compelling as it was. It looks to me as if the fringe that you see is just the fabric losing threads on both sides. I'll take some close up pictures tomorrow.
    3. CanyonRoad, 7 years ago
      The "fabric losing threads" that you refer to is actually the top and bottom, as the piece was woven on the loom...not "both sides." The threads you see are the white warp threads (the vertical threads on the loom), which are covered by the weft threads, (the horizontal colored threads) which make up the surface of the rug or weaving.

      The stripes are at the top and bottom of the weaving, as you have it pictured. The sides are the selvedge edges, the fringe is at the top and bottom Fringe on a weaving like this is made up of the ends of the warp threads, as it is cut from the loom. Native American weaving, because it is done on a different type of loom with a different type of warping technique, will not have fringe on two ends, it will have four selvedge edges, and yarn loops in each corner. (A particular type of Navajo rug, a Gallup Throw, may have three selvedge edges. Some antique Navajo Germantown rugs, and some Sunday Saddleblankets may have fringe added on as decoration, after the weaving is taken from the loom. The fringe in that case is not woven on the rug.)

      Be careful where you do your "research". I have a feeling it is done primarily on web sites, and unfortunately, there is no "fact check" button on the internet. You are just as likely to find misinformation and inaccuracies as you are to get helpful information.

      Here's a helpful, reputable site: http://www.navajorugrepair.com/fake.htm

    4. Vrgdc Vrgdc, 7 years ago
      Thanks canyon road for the info and the nice link. The link was to a Navajo rug repair and they talk exclusively about rugs. We both determined that this is definitely not a rug. Do you know of any other websites that talk of all types of Navajo fabrics? Thanks
    5. CanyonRoad, 7 years ago
      There are no such websites, talking about "all types of Navajo fabrics," because the Navajo do not make anything but rugs, and haven't since the 1800's. Even then, they made wearing robes, not anything remotely like this textile. They have never woven anything in this thinner, lighter-weight type of fabric.

      Their weaving technique has always been the same, for their early chief-style robes and for their rugs. And it has never included anything with fringe, because it cannot be woven that way on a Navajo loom. So the information given on the website applies to Navajo weaving...even though the textile in question is not Navajo. It was to show how Navajo weaving is done, so it is possible to see why this is not Navajo (and therefore not Native American.)

      Why are you having such a difficult time accepting that this is a Texcoco weaving from Mexico? This isn't rocket science, and isn't a judgement call. This is a perfect example of a common Mexican textile, instantly recognizable to anyone knowledgeable about the subject.

      One of the most common mistakes in identifying tribal arts, is to attempt to make an item fit into a preconceived category. You have to start with the object, not with a guess, no matter how "sure" you are of the guess. If it has fringe on both ends, as an extension of the warp threads, it is not Navajo, and not Native American.

      If it has fringe, is woven on a floor loom, has an indigo background, a central diamond shape surrounded by a white band with small patterns within the band, and black, white, and blue stripes on both ends, it is a Texcoco pattern from Mexico. Don't make this more difficult than necessary.
    6. Vrgdc Vrgdc, 7 years ago
      canyonroad
      The Navajo only make rugs or do they make blankets and rugs?

      I know this isn't rocket science, but I also know the games people play and I don't appreciate when people elect to cause trouble for me to get something for themselves. This isn't the first time I've been involved in this type of forum. Their has been a perpetual price on my head since I was fifteen years old and that was a long time ago. So everywhere I go I have to deal with the condescending arrogance of those looking to collect the bounty and it usually is a group thing with a leader that I'm dealing with. If you had a clearer picture of what this set up really is then you would resent it as much as I do. It's a way of taking it away from you too. How would you like to live the kind of life where everyone knows if you ruin something for me you'll get something in return. Well that's what I have to deal with and it's a set up that's all it is. If you knew the whole truth about this setup you would probably elect not to get involved. I will say that the ones on top seem to do better, but there's always a price to pay for doing it. It's the basic principle of right and wrong that you just can't get around and they know it so they get someone in the lower echelon to do their dirty work so you are going to be the one that takes the fall. I hope that you take this to heart.
    7. CanyonRoad, 7 years ago
      The Navajo only make rugs. Period. They do not make blankets.

      I have no idea what other agenda you have going on. I simply saw your query about the item, and gave you a detailed, documented answer. I thought you were interested in finding out about the item, I didn't realize you have other issues.
    8. Vrgdc Vrgdc, 7 years ago
      Yea somehow I knew you would say something like that. I do know what other agenda you have going on. That's the difference.

    9. Manikin Manikin, 7 years ago
      ???? Have we decided what this is ? I do know the rolling log symbol is collectible because backwards on reverse side it looks like that Nazi symbol so people buy many times for that . Beautiful piece at any rate .

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