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Wonderful Welz Red Blue Spatter Trophy Vase

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    Posted 7 years ago

    (765 items)

    This is a wonderful example of a Welz trophy vase. This came all the way from Canada to be a part of my collection. This Welz vase has a wonderful
    Array of colours and has a red brick base decor. This is my first Welz in a trophy shape. Thanks for looking :)
    Special thanks to Craig for additional pictures of other Welz vases in the same shape.

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    1. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      BEAUTIFUL Welz! The last photo is fantastic.

    2. racer4four racer4four, 7 years ago
      I'm overwhelmed...again!
    3. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 7 years ago
      Scott, thank you. Thank you!!!!
    4. charcoal charcoal, 7 years ago
      One of the 6 decors shown above has been found with a Ruckl label. Can you add a picture of, or a link to the related example labeled Welz?
    5. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      BEAUTIFUL Welz-- I had to love it again!

    6. welzebub, 7 years ago
      I would be remiss if I did not point out that a single piece of spatter decor has been found with a Rückl label. At least to the best of my knowledge there is only 1 known example. It is in a decor similar to the trophy vase which is the 4th example from the left in the last image above. The labeled Rückl example is also on a completely unrelated shape. The decor on the Rückl example is primarily a mixture of oxblood and white. Most collectors know that spatter decors can be notoriously hard to attribute accurately by simply looking at the decor. Especially in a simple color combination such as is being referenced above.

      In the case of colors such as oxblood and white, it is very important to be aware that many of the glass houses of the region purchased glass color rods from the same sources, hence the use of the same color from several houses would be at a minimum.... quite expected. I would not be surprised to find identifiable products from several houses using the same color of oxblood for example.... the same would apply to oranges, reds, greens, blues.... etc. One of the major suppliers to this region was Josef Riedel who offered in excess of 500 different colors.

      Most researchers today are aware of similarities in designs and colors from competing houses in some, but not all decors. To ignore those similarities would be irresponsible if applying attributions.

      I own a variety of examples of this period's glass in what I would refer to as an oxblood and white spatter. Many of them are unattributed as to the house that made them. There are differences in the number of glass layers involved in the production of the pieces for example, so attributing them as being from the same source based on their simple oxblood and white exterior appearance would not be responsible, or robust research..

      When decors are similar, we have to look to other indicators for clues as to origin, such as shapes and production techniques. In this case we have 6 (actually more) examples of decors on this shape that can be all be traced to a variety of other unique shapes by Welz. The empirical evidence supporting the Welz attribution is actually quite strong, and substantially more extensive than this one shape. It is also much more involved than can be shown in a single post on CW.

      A single known labeled piece of Rückl disproves absolutely nothing...... it simply provides irrefutable evidence that they made a similar decor. Nothing more, nothing less.
    7. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      Good explanation welzebub.

      One of the "pot stirrers" returns with the usual comments!

    8. charcoal charcoal, 7 years ago
      The orange lined spatter decor and the red lined spatter decor, each shown above, were found on the Ruckl labeled shape.
    9. welzebub, 7 years ago
      The orange lined decor was on a similar shape to the Ruckl labeled example. The differences were large enough to conclude that although similar, they could not both be soundly attributed to the same house. But that is Ok.... we have been down this path before and I have little interest in discussing it again.
    10. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      Rather than regularly playing the broken record, perhaps charcoal could post his research and documentation on his OWN Collectors Weekly postings OR link to HIS glass website, so others could look at his "work" and make their own determination on attributions.

      For those new to this "game" welzebub's web site:

    11. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 7 years ago
      Racer4four, many thanks !!!!!
    12. charcoal charcoal, 7 years ago
      The last picture confirms that the two decors found on the tapered vase shape (one labeled Ruckl) are related. It also confirms that variations in the clear hand applied decorations is acceptable, is to be expected, and is a marker of sorts. The vases above show the same type of differences in the clear hand applied decorations as the two tapered vases (one marked Ruckl) yet the vases above are considered to be by the same manufacturer. Glass research methods should remain consistent regardless of the results. Apply the same research methods to these vases above and each would be by a different manufacturer because the hand applied clear handles on each vase is unique.

      No related decors have ever been found with a label reading Welz.
    13. welzebub, 7 years ago
      As Scott said above, if you have solid robust and supportable research regarding your opinions on this subject, feel free to post it in this forum in your own posts, for others to read and consider. "Drive-by commentary" which seems to only attempt to dispel observations by others, does not seem to help people understand your own personal position clearly.

      Personally, I find observations regarding glass research techniques, presented by an individual that has proclaimed publicly for quite a while, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary, that Welz did not even make glass, to be reasonably suspect.

      And as I said above..... that is OK.... we have been down this path before and I have absolutely no interest in discussing it again.
    14. charcoal charcoal, 7 years ago
      I have posted the Ruckl labeled vase shape twice on CW already. It's the related piece labeled Welz that we're looking for now.
    15. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      Pls link YOUR research and documentation-- perhaps a link to your website would be helpful.

    16. welzebub, 7 years ago
      Scott, I believe that by clarifying that he posted pics of the labeled Rückl vase twice, he has already posted his research.... :-)
    17. scottvez scottvez, 7 years ago
      Oh-- I thought he might have actually done some research and analysis!

      "Empirical analysis doesn't work, so here is a picture to prove my point"???


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