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Loetz Martele Rhinoceros

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Moonstonelov…'s loves6 of 12337Art deco LOETZ-Ausfuehrungen-237- Green multicolored, Circa 1907 - 19201930s paste stone necklace
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    Posted 4 years ago

    philmac51
    (184 items)

    So I would normally wait to receive my parcel, unwrap, clean and polish before photographing and posting, but I was just too eager to share this fabulous discovery with everyone.

    An online auction gift is what I like to call this. Discovered in some remote category on a German auction website with a German language description that none of us English speakers would ever have stumbled upon in a normal search (I mean just the word Glass or Glas in the description would have been helpful). Also, no international postage, although the seller agreed to post to the UK after I made contact. Only 5 watchers over a whole week!! and only 7 bids and eventually bought for an embarrassingly small amount of money.

    I suppose it's my obsessive searching for that elusive bargain that I found this rare and slightly weird Loetz Rhinoceros. When I saw it I nearly fell off my chair and then went on a long and fruitfuless search for some sort of reference validation and eventually found this link http://users.skynet.be/fa000612/decorsfigural.htm which some of you may already know about.

    Anyway, it's very odd, certainly an artistic impression of a rhinoceros, its ears are way too small and it's head too short - more like a bear's, but it's sort of cute and perhaps deserves a compounded descriptive german noun like "rhinophantasieglas"

    It's a pretty impressive size at slightly over 11" in length and 7" high and comes complete with what I assume is a silver saddle. NICE! Just hope it arrives from the Fatherland in one piece. Description said it was perfect with no damage, I will wait and see for myself. I'll post some better images in a follow-up when I have it in my hands.

    In the meantime if anyone has any information on this particular Loetz model, I would be very happy to hear from you.

    UPDATE 24th Feb 2016
    For anyone who has it - please look at page 15 Truitt II, the first plate shows a bunch of elephants and others animals including a Rhino (No. 12124). This is in the section on Palda Glass. Now I know this company produced mostly cut glass, but martele blown glass?? Is it possible that a company, let's say Loetz was making and supplying Palda with ready-made items on to which they balanced decanter and liquor sets - a bizarre idea in itself, but is there something in this??? Or is the Rhino a specific product of Palda Glass Factory? There is some research to be done here me thinks...

    Comments

    1. vetraio50 vetraio50, 4 years ago
      Another Amazing Piece !!!!

      And A Silver Saddle too !!!

      Congratulations !!!
    2. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      I know, I've been grinning insanely for the last 48hours!!!
    3. SteveS SteveS, 4 years ago
      Excellent ...!
      I Think Rago Auction house sold one in a mixed lot some years ago ... and think it is that one which is on L.Com masquerading as a Boar (under pigs) ...
      Great size ! ... Great find !
    4. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Thanks Steve - Yes, same one - it's odd, but it's definitely not a boar!
    5. SteveS SteveS, 4 years ago
      Definitely not a Bore .... Totally exciting !
    6. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      hahaha! thanks!
    7. LoetzDance LoetzDance, 4 years ago
      Great find! Also great story of the hunt and eventually bagging this one! I do see now that he is a Rhino. The picture we have of him on the site looks like he has two tusks but that just must be the clear glass reflection. Thanks Steve for remembering him from an earlier Rago sale. I will make this change on the site. I can also post better photos of him when you get him if you want to send them my way. Congratulations!
    8. Moonhill Moonhill, 4 years ago
      Great find....love it!!!
    9. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      LoetzDance - will do...
    10. Michelleb007 Michelleb007, 4 years ago
      What a fabulous find!! I love your story of how you managed to find it - thanks so much for sharing it!
    11. SteveS SteveS, 4 years ago
      Another link with some ? Relevance ... :-)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_(rhinoceros)

      ... particularly if you are looking for a name ....
    12. Celiene Celiene, 4 years ago
      Funny feet for a rhino, too!
    13. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Thanks Celiene, your quite right - she, she's now a she, is a very strange beast indeed

      Thanks to everyone who has responded and the loves of course.

      I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS
      For anyone who has it - please look at page 15 Truitt II, the first plate shows a bunch of elephants and others animals including a Rhino (No. 12124). This is in the section on Palda Glass. Now I know this company produced mostly cut glass, but martele blown glass?? Is it possible that a company, let's say Loetz was making and supplying Palda with ready-made items on to which they balanced decanter and liquor sets - a bizarre idea in itself, but is there something in this??? Or is the Rhino a product of Palda Glass Factory? There is some research to be done here I think.
    14. mcheconi mcheconi, 4 years ago
      I found another piece from the same collection, but unfortunately the Pinterest user that had the image uploaded closed the account. But the image is still on Google cache and can be seen here https://www.google.com.br/search?q=%22Loetz,+19.Jh.,+KLEINER+ELEFANT+Farbloses,+martel%C3%A9optisch+geblasenes+Glas+mit+silbergelben+Pulveraufschmelzungen.+Applizierte+Sto%C3%9Fz%C3%A4hne,+Ohren+und+F%C3%BC%C3%9Fe%22&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHWA_enBR552BR553&biw=1517&bih=741&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3hdmys6_LAhWKkpAKHQp4DbkQ_AUIBigB&dpr=0.9#imgrc=ZfMSO6E5pXZyhM%3A

      There was a description saying "Loetz, 19.Jh., KLEINER ELEFANT Farbloses, marteléoptisch geblasenes Glas mit silbergelben Pulveraufschmelzungen. Applizierte Stoßzähne, Ohren und Füße ..."
    15. mcheconi mcheconi, 4 years ago
      Found the original post for the elephant

      https://de.pinterest.com/pin/415386765612099764/


    16. mcheconi mcheconi, 4 years ago
      And another one

      https://de.pinterest.com/pin/415386765612099764/
    17. mcheconi mcheconi, 4 years ago
      http://www.kralik-glass.com/loetz-images/animals/lanimal5.jpg
    18. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Hey thanks for chipping in mcheconi - you have pointed out what is definitely a Loetz elephant, but it seems this rhino was produced by/or specifically for Palda by someone else, possibly Loetz. It remains to be seen if this mystery can be solved. I'm going to post an update soon with new images.
    19. LoetzDance LoetzDance, 4 years ago
      Good eye, mcheconi! Palda it is then!
    20. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Hi LoetzDance - It was me that spotted this was Palda, but it's still intesesting where it was sourced and whether or not Palda actually manufactured it. There also seems to be a few Elephants on this site that may also fit into this Palda group of animals rather than Loetz. The Loetz Elephants have a slopping back and these Palda ones a flat back, obviously to accommodate these bottles and glasses.
    21. SteveS SteveS, 4 years ago
      philmac51 ... only have the 1st Edition ... Has the piece in question arrived as yet ??
    22. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Yes it has Steve
    23. LoetzDance LoetzDance, 4 years ago
      Ok. All of the Palda examples shown in Truitt II seem to have the "silver saddle" on them.
    24. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Yes, agreed, and none without the accompanying accessories, but the saddle is really easy enough to remove, basically it's just a plated metal strap secured with a screw at the bottom. Take that away from, say, one of their elephants and it would be easy to mistake one of the Palda models for a Loetz one, specially if one is not aware of this 'decanter range'.

      It's also easy to see how easily the animal and the decanter set could be permanently separated, even more easy if say one glass in the matching set gets broken and the owner never reunites the two and perhaps keeps the animal as an ornament and the glasses/decanter used more practically but separately.

      Clearly what I now need is a Palda decanter set to fit my 'Clara', guess I could be looking for a lifetime??
    25. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Further to this story, the owner told me that it had belonged to his great uncle and that he had owned a shop in Paris in the 60/70's selling vintage/antique glass...
    26. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      I think you can safely say that your pig is indeed Loetz Alfredo, unlike Clara here.

      I remember an earlier post when you mentioned animals and among them you mentioned a Loetz seal!

      In Truitt on the page referred to above there is what looks like a seal in the bottom left hand corner! It is interesting or perhaps a little more of a coincidence to think that Palda and Loetz were producing these things at the same time though???
    27. LoetzDance LoetzDance, 4 years ago
      I think the slant back elephants could certainly be an indication for Palda. Do you see any other identifiers that could help distinguish between the two manufacturers?
    28. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Hi LD - No I think the slanted back elephants are definitely an indication for Loetz. Flat-backed an indication for Palda. It stands to reason that the Palda shapes would have had, for practical purposes, flat backs to support the decanter sets and for those sets to be supported on a level base. I can't make direct comparisons between a Palda Elephant and a Loetz one as I own neither but from this link (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/100729-loetz-martele-elephant-and-the-herd) of Alfredo's, I think you would say that this is Loetz, with supporting documentation. There are other smaller elephants though documented on this site that are flat-backed and have the late oval Loetz mark on them so I can't conclude anything only to say that slanted-backed Elephants must be Loetz. Unless and until there is documentation for specifically Martele decor Loetz elephants, preferably with a oval mark from this period in either clear martele or 2 colour martele with a flat back, you could make the assumption that they are Palda.
      In my humble opinion of course!
    29. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      IMHO Loetz supplied Palda....
    30. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      some Loetz animals Passau on you tube

      https://youtu.be/XMAQRTjIqF8
    31. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Hi Marty, can you provide a little more info on Loetz supplying Palda, as this is what I suspected may have been the case....?
    32. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      Just my opinion and one expressed bu other some time ago .
      Palda seems to have made pressed glass and these are hand made / blown .
    33. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Yes that is the conclusion I came to also.
      Pictures updated!
    34. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      Loetz did commission work for Palda found reference in back of Kantz !!!
      will add details later
    35. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Brilliant!! - thanks mate, looking forward to it!
    36. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      commission N0 2192
      not sure what it was for yet more digging when have time
      are yoiu on FB so can upload photo odf page
    37. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Yes I am but you can email me Marty
      philmacaulay@mac.com
      if that's easier?
    38. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Thanks for the information Marty
      For those interested:
      Kantz - Auftraggeber P.577 - Loetz Com.2192 (1930s) Karl Palda, Haida
    39. SteveS SteveS, 4 years ago
      The Seal is indeed in Cantz Images No. 260: PN 4824/1
      Documented production appropriately in Kristal Glatt
      The Elephant linked above from Cantz is a PN 4821 Images No. 017 ... and even includes the variations for Trunk Up and Trunk down seen in Truitt.
      (... think there may be other Elephants hiding in there as well !)

      The difference in Image No. is reflected in the fact that the Elephant is dated to 1892-3 and the Seal to 1928-9 ... Both are depicted in pen on white paper (as opposed to black background) ...
      The difference of 3 in their numbering would suggest the 36 year difference in their attribution is questionable ...
      Do you have a year for the Palda catalog ?
    40. glassiegirl glassiegirl, 4 years ago
      Steve, the Palda pages are from the mid 1930's according to Truitt. No specific date is given.
    41. philmac51 philmac51, 4 years ago
      Hi Guys

      I have an update to this saga:

      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin?in=442
    42. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      hi Leah check the updated version
      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin?in=442
    43. ozmarty ozmarty, 4 years ago
      oops wrong posting!! sorry
    44. Vintagefran Vintagefran, 3 years ago
      Well deserved Phil. I've never seen anything like him & think he's wonderful
    45. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Thank you Fran - and if you're interested, I followed up on this in a later post with even more info.:
      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin

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