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Czech Bohemian Yellow Tango 2 Handled Tazza

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    Posted 3 years ago

    philmac51
    (184 items)

    This has been on an online auction site for a very long time - German with a poor translatable description "hübsche Glas Henkel Schale,gelb dunkelbraun" - it was a buy it now or best offer, so it took a while and some negotiation to get it at the price I was prepared to pay.

    An interesting piece - there is one shown in red on page 71 of Truitt II. Interestingly the handles and base are not black but purple - I don't know if this helps to actually identify it to a specific manufacturer, but if any of you know, I would be grateful for any information.

    Possibly Ruckl, maybe even Loetz, but no genuine documentation to prove any attribution at this time.

    And a big than you to everyone who has participated in this thread. Thank you for all your comments and expert opinions on this small but controversial piece.

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    Comments

    1. sklo42 sklo42, 3 years ago
      Gorgeous, Phil, a lovely shape. As you ask, 'black' is either amethyst or cobalt blue whoever makes it.
    2. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Will do Al.
    3. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 3 years ago
      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/200318-ruckl-pricelist-catalogue-page-from-da
    4. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      I'm going with Al and Ian on this - Updated title..
    5. yesterdaysglass yesterdaysglass, 3 years ago
      Every piece that has a handle with 90 degree angles is not ruckl.....sorry, but that is just silly!
    6. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Agreed...but I'm going to leave the attribution as it is for now as there is a possibility that it is indeed Ruckl.
    7. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Hi Lisa ... feel free...
    8. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Hi Lisa - The tall blue glass vase in the centre of the web page ... Well I have a large (11") Purple one of these...I'll post in the next few days or so and you can have that also... in fact you can help yourself to any of my images - I'm not precious about them.
    9. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Yeah...see Jericho is pretty convinced it's Ruckl - I couldn't say one way or another.
    10. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      Amethyst glass is in reality the most common way in which the appearance of "black glass" is produced. Amethyst use was incredibly prolific as it was a cheap color to produce. It's use is quite common as a "black" component in Bohemian production. In simple terms, Amethyst glass is a color developed using manganese, which is also used in small quantities to clarify the green tint out of some glass. Manganese is one of the oldest glass additives used. Later glass production also introduced the use of concentrations of nickel as an additive to create black glass and also in small amounts as a clarifier in lead crystal.

      Nice example of Czech production from an unknown house.... at least that is my own personal take on it.
    11. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Wow.. Craig... great info as usual - thank you!!
    12. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Hi Alfredo - great, is there any chance you could send me a copy of that particular page, I'd be very grateful - here's my email address: philmacaulay@mac.com
    13. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      Actually, the Rückl pages to which Alfredo is referring do not show this shape at all, or anything even very close for that matter. I know that for a fact, as the pages he is referring to were provided to Alfredo by me, and I just verified that by reviewing all of them.

      The only similarity to this piece in Rückl documentation is the piece with a similar handle shown in the known poster, and although the handles are similar, the shape is completely different, and that handle similarity falls seriously short of any form of supportable evidence.

      That unfortunately, is how seriously bad research is born.
    14. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Thanks Craig, I got the impression that Alfredo was referring to something new, some reference I hadn't seen previously. I have seen the document you are referring to and although there are similarities, I agree there is nothing that shows this specific shape. Do you think it is simpler just to refer to this piece as Czech for now rather than Ruckl - just to avoid further muddying the waters on id at least until there is real evidence that supports that this is Ruckl or an other?
    15. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      Hi Phil, I have been of that opinion from the start. I do not believe that there is really anything linking this to Rückl production. The claim that the handles are a marker for Rückl is totally absurd. I agree with the comment (#6) by Yesterdaysglass regarding that statement.

      If there were actually any new pieces of known Rückl documentation, it would be all over CW!! There is no new evidence, just new inaccurate and unsupportable claims like the one I addressed.
    16. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Thanks Craig, I've updated title and description - Appreciate, as always, your knowledge, common sense and contribution.
    17. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      Thanks for your opinion Lisa. No one claims to be right all the time that I am aware of..... I for one have always said that I am more than open to actual evidence, whether it be empirical or documentary that shows that one of my conclusions or ideas is incorrect. I am more concerned with accuracy of information posted here, than I am with being "right". That does not appear to be the case for some other members.

      The definitive statement was made above that the handles were a "trademark" for Rückl production. That impliess that ANY piece with that style of handle would by definition be Rückl production. That is certainly a far cry different than "making a comparison". The statement some Welz collectors make that this rigaree is similar to that rigaree is a far cry from stating "This rigaree is a marker for Welz production, therefore this is Welz."

      The two situations are "apples and oranges" so to speak. I thought that people here understood the differences in the two concepts... I stand corrected though.... apparently not all do.
    18. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      I am not going to argue with you Lisa, it always ends poorly.

      Phil does not deserve it. I provided pertinent comments for this piece, but you want to drag Welz into it.

      According to your website Welz "article" (LMAO) you do not even think Welz made glass post 1915-20 and that Kralik likely made it for them. Why would I even waste my time with a Welz discussion with you?
    19. welzebub welzebub, 3 years ago
      Since you seem to want to continue a discussion of Welz....... Yeah I saw it... it was good for a whole series of great laughable moments.

      All it really seems to show quite clearly is how very little you know or understand about the subject..... but by all means.... don't let that stop you from writing about it.
    20. kralik1928 kralik1928, 3 years ago
      I think Loetz, those handles are just a glass makers technique using a square tool, so it could be anybody... but the majority of tango with that foot is Loetz. send me an email and ill show you other colors it comes in
    21. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Here you go: philmacaulay@mac.com
    22. kralik1928 kralik1928, 3 years ago
      phil, cool piece- I can call my pink version of your cup loetz and you can call it Ruckl... I'd rather buy them as ruckl and sell them as loetz, Lol; )
    23. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Me too.... Thanks for the advice by the way ;-)
    24. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Hi Lisa
      I didn't get those images, would live to see them for comparison
    25. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Love to see them also!!!
    26. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Yeah Lisa, that's my email all right - but still nothing - checked junk and everything, weird?? Wait Wait - I just found them - sorry arrived very early hours of the morning for me. I get a lot of emails so had to troll back through a lot of stuff.
    27. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      I sent you a follow-up on email...
    28. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Thanks for that link Lisa. Very interesting. I've just realised that I did not mention size in the original description... and this kinda backs up Jericho's suggestion?
    29. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      Hi Lisa
      I've just added a fourth image see above, which shows accurate measurement of my piece. This probably relates to the 9cm measurement in the lilac one, which possibly takes the height from base to lip. But I wouldn't rely too heavily on measurements in Truitt as being accurate in all cases.

      I was and actually still am, considering a purchase of a granite glass piece with orange glass pitcher, similar in style to the one shown on page 65 (Bottom center image). However when I looked at the height reference it became perfectly clear to me that this was seriously inaccurate - have a look - 19.5" tall Pitcher!!! that's almost half a meter tall!!! I don't think most people could lift this let alone lift it with lemonade in it. 9.5" maybe.

      So Truitt tazza may or may not be the same size, it would just depend on whether it was accurately measured in the first place.
    30. philmac51 philmac51, 3 years ago
      I know - I'm staying with unknown for now Lisa. I don't have many Loetz Tango pieces and I definitely do not own any yellow Loetz Tango, so I can't even make a direct comparison on weight and colour composition. So for now I enjoy it and wait for a day when we can identify it with some degree of confidence.
      I just posted a definite Ruckl Coral Shimmy piece by the way.

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