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1800’s painting

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Paintings610 of 2231"Hello Darlin" One-of-a-Kind Musical Manuscript Oil on Canvas Signed W. Moyer, September 1971Labeled Refugees on back...
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    Posted 3 years ago

    difinitive
    (14 items)

    Because a specialist doubted of what I said without ever seen this the painting and a well known 30 year painting business expert defined it as not worth anything to also include a northern expert in George Caleb Bingham’s paintings who could not help because they no nothing of early works of Bingham, I had no choice but to look forward in defining it my self.

    This genre painting has no frame and it sits on a 12x16 stretch bar. The painting its self is much larger than the stretch bar. There is evidence of overlapping on all sides. You can tell that all the corners have been refolded to fit the smaller stretch bar. The canvas has rough edges, looks old, and is made out of hemp. The painting was prepared with white lead base paint and the paints that lay on top were added to create this colorful original image of an early American setting. This painting has all the characteristics of an old painting usually described by art experts. Francis William Edmonds can not deny the fact that this is an early American setting because he himself created a painting that was almost identical called Taking The Census, which he sold during the fall of 1854. From July 14, 1853 to November 14, 1854 the United States was having The World Industrial Expo which attracted many different painters from many different countries. About the same time a German painter name Eduard Merk made a recorded ownership claim, to the painting I found, by writing and hiding his name behind the lower right hand corner. In the same corner he also stamped four numbers that represent the date of when he wrote his name and claimed ownership of the painting. Utilizing basic 19 century old style Central European Roman numerals he stamped theses four numbers 9.4.55 which stands for 9 of Apr, 1855. We cannot say Sept 4, 1855 because he was from Germany. This may very well be the day he acquire the painting. Merk, was a 39 year old skilled German painter then, and could not possibly lay claim to the creation of this American painting which was actually made by a young unskilled American Artis. Francis William Edmonds could not lay claim to the creation of this painting either because he was a 49 year old skilled American painter plus the painting colors and details are too original for him which is two characteristics that he never mastered. Both of these painters are indicating that the painting was created by someone else. The focus now is on the setting of the original looking painting I found, which could give us a lead in identifying the unknown Artis. Furthermore, I must say that any Art expert, with 19 century knowledge, would have said  that the setting is early 1800's. For example, Eli Terry's mantle clock invention of 1817 was first produced in a simple wooden box and soon after cheaper imitations were made such as the one in the painting. A similar clock can be seen in a painting called Early Life On The Frontier. Because of the mantle clock, this setting can not be older than 1817. The general purpose writing feather quill pen became out date in the late 1820's by the abundance of the new metal dip pen. So most likely this setting is from the early 1800's. Was this old man really taking the census with a feather quill pen in 1854 as Mr Edmonds implied? Need not to answer, because there is another item that painters use to record time and that is the minute hand on the clock. The clock is indicating that it is some where between 1821 to 1822. The minute hand, the clock, and the feather quill pen are indications of an early 1800's setting. The most accurate one to investigate is the minute hand. But, before we do that, let's examine a few details about the painting. For example, the easel on the left shows evidence of the painter mixing brown paint indicating that he was using the brown paint on this very same painting. To draw an original setting takes a while and to paint it even longer. The young painter has stated that the easel is part of this setting and if the easel is part of the setting so is he. His drawing detail skill, shades, background wall texture, light angles, and original looking colors are all details that describe the young American Artist. A young painter with potential, to be exact. After doing research for young American unskilled Artis in the early 1820', only one was found born with drawing skills who had the same characteristics and passion about painting early American life. His name is George Caleb Bingham. History describe's the Bingham family as a young family in the new town of Franklin, Missouri built in 1817. The father was doing well in 1822. So well that he was a county judge, was building a tobacco warehouse for his tobacco farm, plus owned a hotel called the square and compass inn. The Mother was of good sizes and of German descent. She was educated and had a couple of books from which she would teach her children to read. Every early spring a cabinet maker name Jesse Green would come around to take down customers orders so he can hurry up and finish before winter sets in. He was also known as Rev Jesse Green the eldest of the Methodist church counsel who later went out to teach the Shawnee Indians in the west. About the same time that the cabinet maker came around one would hire an individual part-time that knew the area and had similar writing skills to take account of the census. It was a simple census where one only needed to take account of the number of family members. After 1850, the census took account of how many, who were they, what they did for a leaving, and other details that made the census hard to take. So you see, a quill pen, is out of the question. But, the main point I want to make is that it doesn't matter if the man is a cabinet maker or a census taker. What matters is that this setting now becomes early spring of 1821 or 1822 as previously indicated by minute hand. The minute hand is also indicating that this person is a cabinet maker because the census is only taken every ten years. Bingham's family History also describes a little baby girl name Amanda Bingham born sept of 1821 which makes her several months old in the spring of 1822. If the story proves to be the setting, then this is definitely early spring of 1822.The lady to the left resembles a baby sitter and the boy to the right is the cabinet/census taker helper. Due to the fact that the characters are so original in an early 1800’s setting and taking into consideration the specific details in relation to Bingham’s family way of life, one has to respect the possibilities without holding back the question of who is the young artist? One day this painting is going to challenge Sir Francis Willam Edmond’s painting called Taking The Census on originality.

      

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    Comments

    1. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 3 years ago
      Maybe they are reading the instructions on how to do the hat dance ?
    2. difinitive difinitive, 3 years ago
      You know your right and when they start dancing they just keep on dancing while I’m there waiting for the simple hard words to say like I don’t know! Go ask Sam! Or follow the yellow brick road! Mmm. I often wonder if there really are any true dignified professionals. Comparing something to something you know , well that’s easy. Hey! You want to see more than twelve people dance o round a hat? Just wait for the next one!
    3. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      Well, I have been a Art Collector for 30 plus years and I can see issues with this, one staples, started using them on stretchers in the 50's. Canvas is a Modern Canvas, not old. Back looks like someone wiped with a stain? or tea to darken it. If this Painting were to be Old it would not a a stamped lot number on it, something like that would have been done after 1950. If this Painting were to Be OLD, it would have had Nails holding canvas on not staples.
    4. difinitive difinitive, 3 years ago
      First of all, I want to thank you for your comments. Because without comments, we would not be able to clarify things pertaining to the painting. I thought, in order to make the story shorter that I would skip the staples due to the fact that the painting lost its original stretch bar as I stated above. The staples have nothing to do with the painting. As you can see someone did a bad job of brushing on a clear coat which is something that came about in the mid 1900’s. But the clear coat or the bad job, for whatever reason, does not define the painting. I my self believe that the clear coat was put on in order to preserve the painting which was coming apart. That’s just what I believe and it doesn’t define the painting. The clear coat, the staples, the refold, stretch bar, plus the old red paint were all done about the same time. But, they don’t define the painting or artist? The canvas, which you say it’s not from the 1800’s, might be the only true thing that you maybe able define if you were to show the evidence of what your talking about in detail so that other young antique finders or collectors can learn so they don’t make the same mistake of waisting their time on paintings like the one above. Experts who use words, like l believe, I think, it looks like, it maybe, and don’t quote me on this will confuse most antique collectors because they are actually defining nothing. I would like to inform this community not to give up on what people say unless they can prove what they are talking about. So if you are the expert that you say you are, you should not be offended because you are an expert, so by all means, referring to all that want to learn, continue with your teaching lesson so we can all learn. It’s all nice when someone says the good news about the item first then the bad news just like in the road show.
    5. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      And how would You explain the ink stamped Lot number on canvas?
    6. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      You stated that You have asked Others, now You have come here and ask again. And I will be Honest with You in what I say. Your painting has issues as stated earlier, there are no signs of it being stretched on new bars, no other holes to show how it was mounted originally. The Canvas is not any older than 50 yrs at the most. Painting of this era would have hand applied gypsum, this clearly shows modern application of gesso coating. Most likely a Tourist Artist piece from Europe after 1950. I've seen dozens of these kind of paintings over many years. I know that not what You want to hear but it is what it is difinitive.
    7. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      It's Free, just send them the pictures You have posted here and they will give You a response. Come back and Share that with Us when they do. Thx. https://fineart.ha.com/free-appraisals.s
    8. scottvez scottvez, 3 years ago
      Pictures #2 and #4 show it to be a modern creation.

      scott
    9. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      This is a few yrs back, but here is what I'm saying about being in the business. I at one time had the Private Largest Art Collection in the State. More than 500 Paintings by some of the Best Artist of Our time and beforehand. https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/8121-my-garage-thrifts-store-estate-sale-fi
    10. difinitive difinitive, 3 years ago
      No, l think your wrong, this exactly what I wanted to hear, there is a lot of people out there who never seen this type of paintings. I defined what the painting is trying to say concerning every detail i see in order to find out if anyone knows the truth. The especialist who defined many George Caleb Bingham’s paintings did not define it to be what you just said and the other expert who’s been in the business for over forty years well known in the city of San Antonio who answers to the surrounding towns for his expertise did not define it as such as a matter of fact he said that the artist did a great job on the plasters back ground but then he made the mistake of saying it is worth nothing on purpose and if he had not look back I would had not caught him in his lie which startled him. He sat across off to a distance like a zombie who eyes could not let go of what he had just witness. He could not take his eyes off the painting waiting for me to offer it to him. The painting forced him to walk to the front door entrance after i walked out. The last thing I remember is him stading at the front door of his Gallery and frame working business building staring in amazement. I don’t know if you want to here this, but it puts things in perspective when thinking about what the finder wants to here. To solve a mystery you have to show the evidence and secondary if you don’t want to go through the trouble of finishing the task then you just point out a reference where to go like you finally did above. Because now it’s up to me to do the leg work of verification which is understandable why should you do all the work when the item belongs to me. People don’t like to be fool they want to find direction of evidence and truth. The question is not whether the painting is a master piece. It’s just about defining the artist and his work. You displayed more knowledge than the experts above and for that I thank you, Dave. The painting intrigues me and I’m curious about the effect it had on that person. I like the painting and will continue finding snd defining more about it and posting it here so other may learn why artist do the things they do. I hope that others find better help out there when it comes to finding help in the items they find. Thanks again for your help.
    11. Roycroftbooksfromme1, 3 years ago
      I think he's reading a Roycroft book ....smiling Very nice find .. it says a lot about how importan books and infermation was to most back then ... but not today ....as far as those that claim to be expert.'s well most dont have a dam clue ..enjoy the day Nice post...
    12. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      You can't change the mind when its not willing to listen! The Painting is less than 50 yrs old, value is less than $200.00 if You can get that, Your Lucky! Its not a Master Piece in Fact far from it!! Seems You have more experience than those who have been in this business for most of their lives, so why You would even come on CW is questionable? Like I said, send to the link I provided and You will get the Same answer I have given you as well as those You stated had also looked at it as well. And Yes looking at it head on one would think it is a older painting, but the evidence is in the pictures You posted, it's not! Sorry, I lay down the Facts, I will not tell someone anything but the truth and this is nothing more than a Fantasy Piece, looks old but recent. That's the Facts and I'm sticking to it! Do the FREE Appraisal and post results. Thx for Dropping in!!
    13. difinitive difinitive, 3 years ago
      I believe you now Dave, lm sorry for doubting you, I did no who you were, now i know. From know on I’m not going to question anything you say about paintings, you deserve it. You provided the most important thing that a company can ask for and that is customer satisfaction. I’m indebt to collectors weekly for allowing me to post this and finding what I was looking for. I’m I debt to you Dave for having patience with me and answering my questions. I usually pay under a dollar for most items I have collected, so I hope in return that I post something that you collect to make up for the trouble. I don’t really intend to keep any of my items and I have many. I want to say the same to others who contributed to the post. I want to thank blunderbus for being the first one to sound the alarm, I think he is a funny, funny, instigater and I like that about him. I hope that he can be the first one every time when I post things. I hear guns and cannons every time he speaks. His noise is fallowed by these words—- experts define yourselves——. I promise him earlier that would post another item better than this one, so I will, soon. Again I want to thank everyone for helping me learn more about what I didn’t know.

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