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Athena - 4' Bronze Statue - 19th c

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    Posted 3 years ago

    ho2cultcha
    (4404 items)

    I bought this statue from an old man who found it in a cave on his land in Fremont many years ago. It weighs a ton. I think it was from the top of a rotunda somewhere. ??

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    Comments

    1. Mrstyndall Mrstyndall, 3 years ago
      Wow, that is awesome!
    2. ho2cultcha ho2cultcha, 3 years ago
      thanks Mrstyndall. i'll post some better pics i took of it today. it is incredibly heavy. takes three of us to lift it and it's still extremely heavy. i think it's from an old California state house because Athena is on our state seal.
    3. ho2cultcha ho2cultcha, 3 years ago
      Athena is often pictured with an owl, but here she is portrayed with a chicken - or rooster. Not sure why. kind of curious.
    4. Golgatha Golgatha, 3 years ago
      Impressive. Keep it forever. Probably French, late 19th century. The Gallic rooster is a symbol of France. After loosing the war with Germany 1870-1871, French nationalism florished.
    5. SEAN68 SEAN68, 3 years ago
      stunning!!!
    6. Toyrebel Toyrebel, 3 years ago
      Impressive detail. Athena was one wise girl.
    7. Dizzydave Dizzydave, 3 years ago
      https://picclick.com/Large-Bronze-Statue-Minerva-Roman-Goddess-Greek-Athena-253547516471.html
    8. midorner, 5 months ago
      Hey everyone. First let me tell you this a magnificant piece of art. I stumbled across because I was searching for pictures of exacly that statue. In fact I came across the very same statue here in Vienna, Austria and bought it from a historc artefact dealer - but he couldnt really tell me who it was.

      First - it is NOT Athena. As much as you might think it would be - Athena is greek mythology, this lady however has all roman written over her. The roman equivalent would be Minerva. and that's what I thought she is. But I was mistaken as well - for many weeks. Until I finally found out that the Statue is showing the roman godess of war "Bellona".

      In fact most of all art and sculptures you can find the two were mixed and mashed together. Minevra and Bellona were often confused by artists.

      Here are some links for you to take a look at. The statue seems to origin somewhere around 1770 and there were two artists making very similar versions:

      "Minvera" by Ignaz Günther (german) around 1772
      https://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/index.php?id=486&tx_paintingdb_pip=22&cHash=f13f7af54c8fa74ae965e9f656ca7b5d

      https://www.kunstbeziehung.de/work.php?sd%5BwCode%5D=5d9c86d780ae8

      (note the cannon next to her feet - godess of war)

      and

      "Bellona" by Johann Babtist Straub (german) around 1770
      https://www.alamy.de/englisch-eine-statue-des-romischen-krieg-gottin-bellona-des-deutschen-rokoko-bildhauer-johann-baptist-straub-1770-1770-johann-baptist-straub-79-bellona-straub-image188200712.html

      So as you can see it's not easy to tell ...

      As reference, here are some pics of the statue I bought last month.

      https://www.dropbox.com/sh/13h8fpy2wjzz9zm/AAC0q2IRtC0zJ_jGjBmaD3Hca?dl=0

      Please could you let me know where exacly you bought your statue? What cave? Which location? who owned it before? I totally fell for this statue and want to dig deeper and learn more about where it came from :)


    9. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      what a crazy turn of events this thing has ...found in a cave, why was it hiding ... lol just crazy... how about some up date shorts and a story as to whats been going om .....would be cool...
    10. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      i am not so fond of it actually
    11. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      apostata your hemorrhoids acting up today ? ....lol
    12. SEAN68 SEAN68, 5 months ago
      i love this very much!!
    13. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      no only Jackson tremor ( epilepsy and phenobarbital residu)
      tinnitus, sinisitus, septum perforation, diplopy ( nervus succumbus i believe) entropion and ptosis, i believe but i probably forget something, probably o, ja stendhal syndrom and agorafobia, and according to my daughter , i am an borderliner , she could know , because she is genius ( she really is !), and i am addicted to popsickles
    14. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      also according to my daughter fundamental attribution fallacy , (see Jakobson - Jakobson)
    15. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      lol... it would of been easier to just say you had a flare up..funny guy.
    16. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      oops forgot this...The fundamental attribution error (also known as correspondence bias or over-attribution effect) is the tendency for people to over-emphasize dispositional, or personality-based explanations for behaviors observed in others while under-emphasizing situational explanations.
      In other words, people have a cognitive bias to assume that a person's actions depend on what "kind" of person that person is rather than on the social and environmental forces that influence the person......my bog said all this after he ate a book and left it in a pile in the park....smiling
    17. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      i could discus this piece for ages and run it for ages , but its not an early cast,

      i try to be moderate , but am i obliged to press the love bottom all the time

      i used to be a seller lets say about average stock 4100 pieces , if i have to evaluate my own stuff , 90 % is absolute junk , for the mayor auction houses every porcelain beneath the value of 2500 dollars is just moderate, it got nothing to do with with flares or ego
    18. keramikos, 5 months ago
      *snip*

      The fundamental attribution error (also known as correspondence bias or over-attribution effect) is the tendency for people to over-emphasize dispositional, or personality-based explanations for behaviors observed in others while under-emphasizing situational explanations.

      In other words, people have a cognitive bias to assume that a person's actions depend on what "kind" of person that person is rather than on the social and environmental forces that influence the person.

      *snip*

      https://www.simplypsychology.org/fundamental-attribution.html

      BTW, ho2cultcha, beautiful statue. :-)
    19. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      addendum sorry learned helplessness i forget , but my other daughter is less gifted, and the thesis is refuted by the neurologists of the VUMC, and the epilepsy centrum , so we can rule that out, also Meniere ,Labyrinthitis, overaction by attention deficit,carotid artery deficiency, and Volendam disease

      actually i don,t know anything about is , BECAUSE I AM NOT SO FOND OF IT
    20. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      i am talking Jakobson not Seligman by the way !
    21. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      yes, yes Jakobson was influenced by Karl I’ll give you that but organon model style,which begot not only The Theory of Language: The Representational Function of Language..but was top dog and he was one of the founders of the Würzburg School of psychology. In linguistics he is known for his organon model of communication and his treatment of deixis which was of the function or use of deictic words, forms, or expressions as a linguistic phenomenon.
      This should keep “Anything” looking for a snip for a while…back to work for me,.. it’s been fun. And yes” Anything” like I said very cool and would love to know why it was keep in a cave…Ta Tar…lol
    22. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      jesus i am not talking Buhler or Gestalt here keep track please, stick to the basics
    23. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      in science we call this an extrapolation fallacy end of discussion
    24. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      lol funny guy .. well if your talking Jakobson who was Influence, "Heavily' by Karl.what the hell are you left with ..? not original thought by Jakobson.for he had none,.. like most ...chow jesus..
    25. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      its jakobson -jakobson not roman Jakobson !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    26. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      Y a Ya,.. your special as WC Fields would say....If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS and you done that well ,..just thought your original comment was mean .rather then just walking by this page...or maybe its just me "who" was told if you have nothing good to say don't say anything rather then inflict pain ... .chow jesus ,...keep getting ready for spring....lol
    27. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      i just said i am not so fond of this , well that,s not so painfull . is it it, 93 % of my remarks are positif ! ,answer to question 2 , i probably won,t make it to spring, so problem solved question 3 , don,t blame me if someone mixed up the Jakobsons

      addendum i got a whole team trying to solve questions from paticipants, , and i go to hell and and back to help them

      i am not Jesus, actually i might be a belligerent brainiac , but i play it clean,
    28. ho2cultcha ho2cultcha, 5 months ago
      omg! i am very tempted by the delete button although i swore i would never use it here! this was posted right after i purchased it. i was able to clarify w/ the old man i bought it from a couple months later and he found it in a field on his property in the Hayward Hills, CA. i sold it a while back to a man from sacramento.
    29. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      i just said i am not so fond of it what the hell is wrong with it , its like a remark like i prefer stake to pork , i am not the Boston Celtics cheering session
    30. Shuzbut Shuzbut, 5 months ago
      ho2cultcha thanks for the up date ..but feel free anytime to delete anything I post...I'm in the same boat as The "belligerent brainiac" as far as seeing spring...lol Row row row your boat ...later all..you take care apostata ...
    31. keramikos, 5 months ago
      ho2cultcha, I probably don't need to tell you to feel free to delete any comments of mine on a post of yours. };-)

      My previous comment on this post provided an attribution link for a direct quote in a comment by Shuzbut, but none of it was pertinent to the subject at hand (the statue).
    32. keramikos, 5 months ago
      ho2cultcha, I find this to be a fascinating mystery.

      Why ever would this statue have been in the middle of a field in the Hayward Hills, CA?

      In any case, hats off to midorner, who identified it as a replica of German Rococo sculptor Johann Baptist Straub's 1770 creation, Bellona:

      https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bellona_Straub.JPG

      *snip*

      Straub's statue (below) has a gorgon head on her shield to instil[l] terror in her enemies

      *snip*

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellona_(goddess)
    33. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      look closely its a late cast !
    34. keramikos, 5 months ago
      apostata, I'd be glad to look more closely if I knew what I was looking for. Educate me, what is a late cast?
    35. keramikos, 5 months ago
      Perhaps the statue was temporarily relocated after an earthquake, and subsequently forgotten, e.g.:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1868_Hayward_earthquake
    36. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      how closer to the original the more value it is (signed is also an factor and patina or coated , sinc compound etc), so after a while mostly depending on the succes of the origianal you got different releases, so you have to examen the mold if it is wore out or not, the plies are getting curve etc

      so this is a late release ( cast - mould) in good condition , so the value is the decoration value x the amount and time of the release x compound of the bronze

      otherwise it was , i don,t know what it is nowadays decoration x 4,80 dollar a k depending on the compound bronze

      take a look ct chiparis statues you get an idea , wrong comparison by the way , because the are foundry marked

      there is also some slight disadvantage its not a minerva its a bellona they are less popular
    37. keramikos, 5 months ago
      apostata, Very interesting. So you think that this statue might have come from the same mold as the original?

      FYI, I just noticed that the spear is missing from the Hayward Hills statue, but it it had been cast separately, it could have been removed.

      ho2cultcha, Do you remember if your statue had a cannon at the base?
    38. apostata apostata, 5 months ago
      no this mould is for 100% not related to the original mould and the second mould is also different , so i don,t know what it is , there are lots of copys
    39. keramikos, 5 months ago
      ho2cultcha, Scratch that question; I can clearly see in your third picture that there is no cannon next to the figurine's left leg.

      Moreover, in the original the ornamentation at the top of the figurine's right sandal isn't duplicated on the left one, but instead is hidden by the draped skirt.

      So, it's pretty close in many respects, but it's probably not from the same mold as the original.
    40. keramikos, 5 months ago
      apostata, I see that you concur it's not from the same mold as the original. :-)
    41. ho2cultcha ho2cultcha, 5 months ago
      there was no cannon on this piece. i was paid a lot more than 480 for it (x6). It probably had more than 480 in scrap bronze in it. it was extremely heavy!

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