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Welz Production Literature – A Post For Those That Like Reality!!

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Bohemian Art Glass205 of 6312Welz Décors from the Production Literature...... though not on these shapes.Fritz Heckert Red "Marmopal" Glass vase, Otto Thamm design, PN TH 22o, ca. 1903
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    Posted 4 months ago

    welzebub
    (216 items)

    In light of another recent post seemingly trying to once again muddy the waters regarding Welz, and Welz production literature, I thought I would post one of the pieces of Welz production literature I have been fortunate enough to uncover, with an explanation of what it is and where it came from. It seems that the provenance of this find is once again being called into question in this forum by my favorite critic.

    Image 1 above shows one of the pieces of literature I have images of. The originals are still with the owner. I was fortunate enough to discover the only known Welz production literature in late 2014, after about 7 years of initial Welz research.

    When I was provided the documents, my website had been active for around 5 years and I had documented quite a bit of Welz production. That production had been identified starting with a very small case in Passau, and some examples shown in Truitt I.

    Although my research had been met with criticism from a small crowd of critics, what the literature discovery showed me was that my methodology I used for research was very effective, as approx. 80% of the pieces shown in the production literature were shapes and decors I had already identified without the use of a paper road map.

    The Welz production I identified up to that point of seeing it for the first time had also not been identified using labels or marks. Those labels and marks are still not used to identify glass. The glass is used to identify the glass.

    So what do I know about this piece of Welz production literature, and how do I know it?

    The literature piece is a full page, and not a partial page as declared recently by a critic in this forum.
    The literature is a piece of documentation provided to customers to order glass from, and not of unknown purpose as declared recently by a critic in this forum.
    The literature was printed post WWI, and by the date stamped on the literature it is from 1928. It is not of an unknown age as declared by a critic in this forum
    The literature is a piece of factory production literature printed for Welz to provide their customers the ability to see accurate representations of glass Welz made that they could order. It is not a wholesaler catalog or any other type of paperwork.

    How is this information known to me? It is information provided by the granddaughter of Franz Alois Welz who lives in a town in the southeast region of Czechia (Czech Republic). The literature, along with an assortment of other historically significant documents were inherited through her grandfather, Franz Alois Welz.

    The 2nd image above is an image which matches actual production shapes to the production literature. In some cases in the same décor, and in other case, in a different Welz décor. There are still 2 examples which have eluded me for the last 5+ years.

    In addition to these important production pages, I also received copies of the following historically significant documents. I am likely among a very small crowd of people that have ever seen any of this Welz family archival material, and having it shared with me is a great honor.

    This is a partial list:
    Floor plans and the containing portfolio for the Welz production facility in Klostergrab, built in 1894.
    Mining maps indicating the use by year of coal on the family’s coal mines Anna and Emilie.
    A map of Klostergrab showing significant locations such as the graveyard and main streets.
    A mining map of the area showing all of the coal mines located in the region of Klostergrab.
    An image of a Cameo glass vase Welz produced and owned by the family. (I have never seen one in real life, only an image)
    A copy of the Gold Medal certificate awarded to Franz Welz in 1910 at the Brussel’s worlds fair.
    Geological surveys of the region indicating the location of coal and other materials in the entire valley at the foot of the Ore Mountains.
    A hand written family tree with the starting date of 1668 and beginning with Heinrich Weltz. (the original spelling) The family tree ends in the 1930's.

    All of these materials were previously unseen outside of the Welz family.

    There have been several attempts through the years in this forum to cast aspersions about the validity of these examples of Welz production literature. Those aspersions are blatantly false claims cast in an attempt to sow doubt about the validity of Welz research, by a small crowd of my die hard critics. I am of the opinion that such claims do little if anything to detract from the validity of Welz research, but do cast a large shadow of doubt on the credibility of those making the claims.

    ------------------------------------------------
    Edit 01.18.20
    I have added a third image above. TOD made the observation that "the paper has aged and does not represent the actual colors of the glass items".

    The added image matches examples of decors shown in the literature to actual colors of the decors on glass. In some cases the shape and decor are the same as the literature image. Where that is not available, I have matched the decor in the image to an actual piece of production in the same decor.

    Color fade on printed images is generally not something that fades specifically because of age. Fading is generally the result of exposure of the printed materials to sunlight, in which case the UV content of the light fades the inks. The color shift in the production literature examples seems to be minimal considering the paper is a little over 91 years old.

    End Edit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Edit 01.18.2020

    I would also be remiss if I did not point out that apparently Welz literature is too old and faded to have colors accurate enough to identify glass, but Rückl literature of the same period apparently used fade resistant ink on archival papers (not really)...... so it is apparently a great tool for the same activities....... The hypocrisy of that is absolutely breathtaking.

    End Edit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Edit
    01.22.20

    The following claim was made in the comments in this post.

    "Of course all our paper documentation has been manipulated to increase the detail and color with image software..... and to make it a more useful tool. Of course you never do that either." (Actually, I generally try to avoid manipulating images like this)

    I have replaced the 1st image above. The top of that image is the one I used in this post at the top, which was enlarged in size to make things larger, but not manipulated as to colors etc. The bottom image is the untouched image of the actual scan of the literature I was provided by the granddaughter of Franz Alois Welz.

    As can be seen pretty easily, the colors and brightness etc of these two image are the same. The only difference is that I increased the size for visibility of objects and print.

    End Edit
    ------------------------------------------------

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    Comments

    1. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      there are no aspersions on the piece of paper and the very basic flaw of it not being identified in any way except from verbal statements that can be accurate or not.

      this is such a simple issue when it comes to what is called ephemera in the antique world, because paper is not a substance that survives well, and can be manipulated.

      I have never seen a catalog page with 11 pieces of decorative glass, that's it, no page number, no title, no footnote, we see plenty of these in the Truitt volumes, there is no comparison, maybe it's not a catalog page but an advertisement, even then, it is missing the text. I am not accusing anybody of doing anything.

      Evaluating this piece of paper and giving an opinion. This is no proof of anything other than this glass was made and it existed.
    2. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      So my reaction when the colored glass spatter decor 'asis' on this piece of paper that has aged by the way, and does not represent the actual colors of the glass items, is used to attribute another piece of unidentified glass in a similar decor to one company is disbelief.
    3. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Thanks for commenting Lisa. I always enjoy it when you help to prove my point.

      So the possible scenarios seem to be that Franz Alois Welz's granddaughter is mistaken about what was passed to her so what I was told is incorrect, keeping in perspective that it was provided along with a plethora of other factory and family documents, or I am misrepresenting what I was provided with to further my Welz research based on false claims.

      I suppose the other possibility is that she actually knows what she owns from her grandfather, and I am accurately representing what I was given access to. :-)

      Occam's Razor is a good principle to keep in mind.
    4. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      I have added an image to the post, and also an edit about that image, which is identified as an edit in the post text.
    5. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      I was thinking that this is a circular argument or discussion or explanation of who made this glass.

      It goes round and round, either one way or another, as finding a piece of decorated glass that matches one of the eleven documented items, and declare it is Welz and any other piece is also Welz in that somewhat difficult to judge small colored image. Or the shape is the deciding factor and everything in that shape is Welz.

      There has been mutch ado in the last few years, using this paper to attribute first hand, second hand, third hand and so on. There are more small images, not seen here but also used to make atttribution in the same way. No explanation as to where they came from. Sandcastle or house of cards.... exercise IMO.
    6. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      The great thing about my research Lisa, is the last thing on a very long list of things I do not need, and never will, is your approval or agreement..... But please keep commenting.....

      The documents were not used to attribute the glass, as stated clearly above, and repeatedly in this forum and elsewhere. I had identified over 80% of what it shows before I ever saw the production literature....... And much of it was already on my website when the literature was discovered. So there was no "using this paper to attribute first hand, second hand, third hand and so on."

      Thanks again for commenting though..... your comments are always so insightful. :-)
    7. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      Your sarcasm after allowing me to share what I think about this topic here, and telling me it does not matter to you that I disagree with what you do and say, is exactly how I feel.

      I don't care, never have, if people support me or not. That has never been my indicator for what I perceive and believe. You have waisted much time and effort trying to dissuade me for years, and heap ridicule on me for my Ruckl and Kralik website content, and my statements.

      Other people are influenced by what you say, but not all. Again that is not my meter for approval, I don't have one. Learned early to deal with naysayers and saboteurs.
    8. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Facts are facts. Not believing them does not alter that. Thanks again for commenting....

      Admins: Please leave this conversation in place, and please do not delete the comments.
    9. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      So you have also magically, as usual, managed to avoid the root question, so let's discuss the basics.

      It is clear that you doubt the veracity of the production literature and/or the validity of the claim that it is Welz literature...... so is the family member, Franz Alois Welz's granddaughter, who owns the literature mistaken about what her grandfather passed on to her, or am I misrepresenting what it is that I uncovered.... Or maybe you have a third alternative??
    10. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      All of the facts? Accroding to you, but not in my point of view. It is not an all or nothing approach. I do believe this glass exists and was made and sold by somebody, of course. I question the provenance, and how it was established. That's it.
    11. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      In anwer to 9. which was not there when I wrote my last comment, I do not want to discuss and speculate on the Welz family members, and how they managed their documentation. That is why I did not respond. To many unknows here.
    12. scottvez scottvez, 4 months ago
      Beautiful Welz!!

      It must be gratifying to the descendants to see the interest in their family work.

      It is great that you were able to connect and bring the story of this amazing glass house and their work to glass collectors worldwide!

      Fantastic job with a solid foundation of study and research that will stand the test of time.

      scott
    13. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      "It must be gratifying to the descendants to see the interest in their family work."

      Thank You Scott. They were thrilled to make my acquaintance, and even more thrilled that someone was researching their family's' glass history. They have received copies of all of the articles that have been published, and I look forward to meeting them in person in the future.
    14. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      TOD says: "I do believe this glass exists and was made and sold by somebody, of course."

      So do you believe it was made and sold by Welz?
    15. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      I question the provenance, and how it was established. That's it.
    16. vetraio50 vetraio50, 4 months ago
      Just wondering about the two pieces that still elude you, WELZEBUB :

      Are they 8808St/24 cm and 8715h/18cm ???
    17. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Yes.... that is correct Kevin. I have seen items close to those 2, but not exactly the same shapes.
    18. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      And yet another non answer answer...... Do You believe that the glass in the piece of literature was produced by Welz. Simple question.... It is kind of a Yes or No query.

      Regarding the provenance..... The granddaughter of Franz Welz explained what they are. What is to question there? You either doubt what they say, or you doubt what I am saying about what they say. It is pretty simple, but you seem to want to doubt the information based on "sqaut".

      They were correct about the other couple of dozen documents I was provided.... but for some reason, the most significant documentation regarding the glass itself is what you want to focus on, because it actually substantiates my research and that is a tough pill for you to choke down.... That's rich.....
    19. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      This is all according to you, your research, your results before you got this document, which happily corresponded with what you believed was Welz glass.

      You complain that I wont give you a yes or no answer, as if there is something strange about that..... Again, I believe there is a body of art glass pieces that were produced by one entity or glass factory. For me there are several potential scenarios, I have stated this many times. Especially in the interwar period, when any number of thing may have happened with the remaining Welz families and their plant.

      I'm not going to point out what those might be so you can use that reply for further disagreements here with me. Why does it matter? This is not personal, believe it or not, my honest objective opinion is that we don't know enough to decide, in spite of the family's collaboration, and your's and other's efforts to work this out.
    20. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Thanks for the explanation..... It makes no sense to me..... but thanks for trying.

      Why does it matter? It matters because when it comes to Welz knowledge, you are about 50 cards short of a deck. Let's not overlook the fact that five years ago (according to you on Oct 19, 2019 in facebook) you stated "5 years ago I was a very ignorant and naive Czech glass collector." 5 years ago I was 7+ years into Welz research. Now you are an expert..... LOL You make statements about things like this literature being questionable, the production house in Klostergrab was a coal plant not a glasshütte, and a whole plethora of other false and unsupportable claims that are completely unfounded, purely hypothetical, and have no basis in reality..... and then whine because you get confronted aggressively about it.

      This is not personal??? This comical statement from a woman that had 25+ paragraphs of personal slams and insults on her public website about me, including calling my claims of running an auction for a living to be a lie....I guess your idea of "personal" and mine are a little different.

      You know Lisa, if it was not personal you would not keep trying to sideswipe my research and me in posts in this forum..... The only time we have these interactions is when you drag me into it. Pretend all you want... Your actions speak substantially louder than any words you say here.

      Let's not lose sight of the fact that your now rewritten post dragging Welz into the conversation is what got us here. Had you not posted that, I would have never needed to explain the facts directly here in this post.....

      Go Away. Stay Away. Leave me and Welz out of your conversations here, and we will be just fine.
    21. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      Quite the change from you welcome my comments, then after much time spent discussing your favorite subject today, and I have not changed my mind, you become hostile.

      You keep rehashing the past, my misdeeds, as if you were an innocent bystander, that got a splash of cold rain water on a sidewalk for no reason. There is a long list of you talking trash about me on Facebook for instance, recently, when somebody was kind enough to give us a copy afterwards.

      You interfered with several of my posts in the last month so don't complain if I return the favor, by questioning this one. Which you seemed to be interested in, or was that a fake move to?

      I will stay off your CW posts if you stay off of mine.... how many times have I said that Craig?
    22. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      OK Lisa.... we will see how long you can leave Welz and me out of your posts... that is the only time I comment.
    23. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      Ok craig, same goes for me, see how long it takes for any of your new posts to mention me in any way directly or indirectly.....That would be on top of the dozens you already have here.
    24. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      For what it is worth Lisa, I have never been foolish enough to think I would change your mind. I welcome your comments because I just like to see what you have to say.... I find much of it to be either factually challenged and entertaining, or artful dodging.
    25. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      whatsup, that made me laugh. Reminded me of a saying about the quality of your enemies, says much about you, or something like that. Married couples do bicker a lot, these days I'm guilty of that, but there is always an undercurrent of affection.

      The artful dodge is one that we both share Craig, it's been so long, that there is a certain satisfaction in our ongoing tug of war. If that makes any sense. Goodnight.
    26. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      There is no satisfaction. I find it beyond irritating. If I said how I actually feel about it in honest blunt terms, they would delete my account instantly.
    27. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      If you are that emotionally engaged in this, then don't pretend otherwise. Everything we could say was said here yesterday.
    28. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Nothing emotional about it. I think this conversation speaks for itself Lisa. Maybe you could leave it alone now. I find your views on Welz and my research to be personally motivated, and something you keep revisiting in this forum with snide remarks in your posts. Avoiding using the word Welz, talking about "that other glass family", discussing how "a company", all of which include references to Welz.... etc etc etc. and those are just the most recent in the past couple of days.
      I believe one forum member referred to it as "inflammatory wording"...... which is exactly what it is, and done intentionally on your part.

      I remind you.... this conversation on this post only occurred because you decided that stating unsupported opinions making false claims about Welz production literature, and the likelihood it is not what it is said to be, and I responded with a factual post regarding the literature and it's origins.

      You claim to doubt the provenance, but will not even say for what reasons. If I could block you in this forum I would, just like I do in Facebook and have for years. Now seriously get off my post. I will delete any additional comments you make from this point forward. I generally don't delete comments, but moving forward, I will make an exception for you.
    29. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      such a liar, as you state one thing you do another the two post by whatsup are gone, so much for "I dont generally delete...blah...blah...blah".

      Then as I considered you might do, you call me a hypocrite right here on an edit, because I say that colored paper becomes altered with age, and yellows for instance.

      Of course all our paper documentation has been manipulated to increase the detail and color with image software..... and to make it a more useful tool. Of course you never do that either. Bye.
    30. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      well i am not an expert on Welz. actually i am a redneck on Welz. my former employer needed staff , so i had to headhunt, for the auctioneers, i asked what about this guy (welzebub), they said he is one of the VERY best and they are not moving nickle and dime stuff there
      rumour has it that some people appraise japanese and chinese stuff, without knowing the languages and the characters and the marks
      well its a nobrainer what i prefer aint it
    31. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      You are the one who implied the literature from Welz could not be used because the colors were off. Not me.

      You might want to pay attention to the fact that Whatsup's account is gone from CW. So the comments went with it.. ..But thanks for commenting. I will let this one remain also, but no more. All further comments from you will be deleted.
    32. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      an arrogant know it all fake that can't even speak English and write it properly prefers another arrogant know it all fake that can't write better that at a grade school level: go figure.....LOL

      "I will let this one remain also", or I will also let this one remain?
    33. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      OK. I will make another exception for this comment too. Thanks for commenting once more Lisa.
    34. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      the point is i can write proper English , but the problem is , i am an almost blind and an eplileptic
    35. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      by the way as you might have noticed i manage 6 languages
    36. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      I'm not, you two should get along fine, much in common.

      The purpose of this continuing rant is to have me kicked out at last, a goal that has been simmering and boiling over for 2 years.

      I don't know how you can say keep on commenting, then dont comment I will delete, then, ok I will keep that awful one..... only to pursue the end mission. Recognize the scenario.

    37. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      renedijkstra: You do not need to defend yourself against insulting personal attacks that have nothing to do with the content of my post about Welz production literature. No one else here lacks the couth, and would make such an insulting and inappropriate statement. I am sorry you got dragged into Lisa's rampage against me and Welz.

      And Yes Lisa, I will let that one stay also.
    38. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      no i think truth or dare is a good cloisonne appraiser, but she cant appraise other stuff, no sweat , i cant appraise a lot of stuff because i dont know , but my former team does, most of them are scientist or got a degree, they are not rednecks
    39. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      The following claim was made in the comments in this post.

      "Of course all our paper documentation has been manipulated to increase the detail and color with image software..... and to make it a more useful tool. Of course you never do that either."

      I have replaced the 1st image above. The top of that image is the one I used in this post at the top, which was enlarged in size to make things larger, but not manipulated as to colors etc. The bottom image is the untouched image of the actual scan of the literature I was provided by the granddaughter of Franz Alois Welz.

      As can be seen pretty easily, the colors and brightness etc of these two image are the same. The only difference is that I increased the size for visibility of objects and print.
    40. jericho jericho, 4 months ago
      This undercutting of real documentation is not helpful. All documentation is useful especially when shared, I have been grateful to see unpublished raw documents that have never been shared... this is a pity because that reclusiveness of collectors and researchers comes about because of critical sniping and insults...

      P.s. All documentation is valuable
    41. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      I have personally known a handful of researchers, to include a couple of folks that researched Czech glass, that quit sharing in public and posting anywhere because of the type of activities that go on with a couple of folks in this forum, and similar activities in other forums by a small group of people. Things like the banning the discussion of Welz in a facebook group about Bohemian glass does no one any good, and is, at it's very best.... extremely petty....

      One of the researchers that quit sharing and interacting publicly was a world class resource for Czech glass, with an incredibly deep and broad knowledge of the industry, and he simply stopped interacting in public with folks because it became more than tiresome. Thankfully I had a research relationship with him outside of forums.

      The false claims made in this forum that caused me to post this, and the plethora of other instances of it, and the diatribe in the comments by my critic, are destructive to the objective of people actually trying to learn things. Regular forum members understand what goes on, but there are far more people who read and do not post in a forum like this. Sadly, they may end up misinformed or confused. It is always a shame to see a small group ruin something for many others because of some petty motivation.

      Calling into question the validity of a shared source, one I might mention that really does not need to be shared with anyone, or questioning the credibility of my claim about what it is, does not change the facts, but it does try that patience of someone that gains no benefit from sharing it, other than helping some people interested in actually learning something.

      Honestly, I have considered stopping public contributions on more than one occasion..... My research will always continue, with or without sharing it in public.

      I appreciate your comment Jericho. We have known each other for a long time now. You for one, have a very clear understanding of my feelings about this kind of crap.
    42. artfoot artfoot, 4 months ago
      Just to publicly add my thoughts - I think that questioning the documentation provided by the Welz family is totally preposterous. I think that ignoring or dismissing Welz production is a fool's endeavor when discussing interwar Czech glass.
      I make no claims of being anything but moderately knowledgeable about Czechoslovakian glass and having a desire to learn more. This sort of extended conversation may appear unnecessary but is actually, to me, quite informative. Thanks for leaving it intact (for now).
    43. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Thanks to all of those that stopped by my post.
    44. DuDa DuDa, 4 months ago
      I am another that appreciates your strict adherence to accepted scientific method, welzebub. To call into question documents passed on from a direct Welz family member and the explanation of what those documents are by that descendant is beyond the pale.
    45. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      its a f...... disgrace ,it disqualifies the family en welzebub , disgusting
    46. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      @renedijkstra I am of the opinion, as I believe many others are, that such claims as those by TOD are a substantially poorer reflection on the source of those comments, than they will ever be on the descendants of Welz, my research, or me.

      It has gone on for many years now, and there are more and more folks every year that express an interest in, and collect Welz production. I think that simple fact speaks substantially more to reality, than the outrageously false claims made by one of my diehard critics.
    47. truthordare truthordare, 4 months ago
      Bash away, 2 weeks now, this diatribe has been allowed to remain on this site, anybody other poster would have had the comments deleted by CW, even if the OP did not want it done. How many nasty comments from WeBu did I have on my posts and kept on purpose for the same reason this is being done here.

      I was falsely told not to comment by WeBu and if I did, they would be deleted, only to have them preserved for a horrible representation of my angry and frustrated self, after my own years of being ridiculed and attacked.

      For those who think that I am 'beyond the pale' by claiming that a family's descendants don't always have an accurate understanding of their relatives history, that is nothing unusual in the antique business. You don't understand that if you looked at these pieces of paper with glass illustrations with no comments, you would have no idea what they are.

      You need someone to explain the value and importance of these documents, there lies the issue of validity and accuracy. To be infuriated and scandalized that I am not a believer is ridiculous. You don't see how difficult it is to use verbal, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand repeated and probably embellished 'facts' by family members 100 years later and expect it to be 100% true. That is a recognised family dynamic, not meant to be deceptive.
    48. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      Thanks for the additional insight. Always appreciated. :-) I am anything but infuriated or scandalized that you do not "believe". I am actually much more amused and entertained than anything else. Thanks for dropping by.
    49. scottvez scottvez, 4 months ago
      "You don't see how difficult it is to use verbal, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand repeated and probably embellished 'facts' by family members 100 years later and expect it to be 100% true."

      Exactly what "verbal facts" are being accepted without checking/ confirming.

      Provenance (Franz Welz to grand daughter) is established and documented. Additionally, the multitude of other family documents (factory floor plans, awards, catalog pages, maps, surveys....) further tie it all together.

      scott
    50. welzebub welzebub, 4 months ago
      I would add that it is a well recognized fact that within families the "story" behind certain items becomes distorted. In virtually all cases of that I am familiar with, it is usually about "grandma's vase" and some story about where she got it.... many times they are not accurate, but in many instances they are. It is certainly not an occurrence which is limited to glass.

      That is certainly a far cry from the descendants (granddaughter) of a family that produced glass for about 140+ years being confused about a couple of pages of production literature, found within an historical assemblage of documents related to that same firm. Documents I would add, that are for the most part unseen in the world of glass, and also of great historical importance. Especially important, if one is actually interested in the accurate history of Czech glass.

      Like I said before, Occam's Razor is generally a good concept to keep in mind. It is often that the simplest answer is the correct one.
    51. Wow22, 4 months ago
      I would like to chime in and reiterate that the poster has never been under any obligation to share these documents in a public forum. I, for one, am exceedingly grateful for that generosity with the available information. Researchers can become obsessively protective of their documentation. I find it refreshing that it is openly shared and we can all draw our own intelligent (or not) conclusions and share in the journey of Welz discovery.
    52. renedijkstra, 4 months ago
      i want to state one thing In Holland before you write your thesis you have to study methodology (and sometimes statistics ) and i am 100% sure that he would pass with flying colors, its pure science

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