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Any Idea on manufacturer or dates????

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China and Dinnerware4647 of 5852Antique Tom & Jerry Cups with Gold Trim # 3 and # 85Nadal figurine
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    Posted 9 years ago

    (3 items)

    I have a resale store and this came to me when one of the clients past. She did not have any family left. I found this with just the blue cross on the bottom of it. No idea if is worth anything or where it came from? Please if you do let me know. It's a beautiful porcelain set. Thanks.

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    1. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Most beautiful tea service! Very fine porcelain, and if I'm not mistaken, handpainted and gilded throughout. Saucer might well be a trembluese, which indicates some age, as does the form of the teapot and sugar. I don't recognize the mark, but the second link below will give you an excellent source. Based on the shape, I am guessing (I don't know much about porcelain!) that this is either French or German. Not a common service! Simply wonderful! Hopefully, one of the others comes along and can give you more information.
    2. chinablue chinablue, 9 years ago
      Lovely set! When I first saw it, I thought Czeck because it reminds me of a demitasse I have. I think miKKo may be on the right track with a French maker. The mark is similar to that of Varages. Take a look at this link and check mark #49:

      In NO way to be disparaging of this pretty set, you may also want to consider that on occasion, an X was used to mark items as a factory 'second'. Because of that, it's possible that the mark is not that of a particular factory but of the maker's quality control. I say this ONLY to point out that it may not be a specific 'maker's mark'. I mean no offense in sharing this. It is quite pretty both in form and design. :-)
      (Hi miKKo!!)
    3. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Hi, chinablue!! Always great to see the calvary arrive to save the day! : )
    4. chinablue chinablue, 9 years ago
      Oh stop it, miKKo! You're going to make me paranoid about posting on things. *LOL* YOU were the one that thought French, I just dug through the marks. I knew I'd seen one like it, but couldn't remember which one it was. I do like this set, but just don't think it's old enough to be a Varages mark from that time period. What about you?
    5. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Morning, all! Hope your Saturday is splendid….Chinablue, you do know more about porcelain than I. But I tell you what, to make up for my visible - and sincere - praise, I shall refrain from making any further comments on the faux-hallmarked mystery flask. (Aiee, that one is a toughie!) I will leave the solution to you and Vetraio. : D

      I don't have an intelligent opinion about the age of this item. Although the forms are indeed very old ones, these pieces do look remarkably 'new', and the gilding is remarkably intact. Indeed, they look pristine to me. (Caveat, I don't have good resolution/graphics capability on this laptop.) I should think that these pieces were either not much used, or more likely that they are of more recent production, though I shouldn't care to propose that they are of modern or contemporary issue. My experience with Czech porcelain is exceedingly slight. All the pieces I have encountered of Czech porcelain have been thinner than these are. They have also been remarkably white. The tray reminds me of those produced by several countries - notably France, Germany, Hungary, and England - but I've never seen a Czech one like this. However, that doesn't mean anything, as I am very ignorant of porcelain. I should like to point out that because of the pristine finish on these pieces, whereas "Czech" came to your mind upon viewing, Mottahedeh immediately came to mine. I know that you're familiar with Mottahedeh, chinablue, but for the others, just in case, I'll describe the firm. The firm has been commissioned to manufacture reproductions and 'adaptations' by the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Colonial Williamsburg, Winterthur, Monticello, and Historic Charleston. I am most familiar with their Williamsburg reproductions, but they their focus is broad. They focus on tableware based primarily on Chinese Export for the West, Early European, and Chinese designs. (Follows below a link to one of their distributors.) I don't think that Mottahedeh produced these - they would be properly hallmarked if they had been. But I do think that these might well have been made within the last hundred years or so by a firm that made reproductions, or by one that made knock-offs. As for a firm using and “x” to designate second quality, yes, I think that’s possible, but again, I think that it would be a mark likely placed on an authentic reproduction or a knock-off. Varages didn’t use an “x”, did they? (Try not to laugh at me. Oh, chinablue, remember the second hallmark on the mystery flask – it now looks to me like two broccoli stalks bound together. : ) Humor for a Saturday morning from a madwoman.) A2ndChance, whoever made this tea service, it's most beautiful, and if it were mine, I'd be fretting that there's not another cup so that I could use it to serve guests. I’m so happy that you have this beautiful service. Now I've exhausted all my opinions, intelligent and non-intelligent. : )
    6. chinablue chinablue, 9 years ago
      You're too funny, miKKo. Broccoli as a hallmark.. I suppose that makes as much sense as some of the others we've found! *L* As for Mottahedeh, I know OF them, but not much about them. I have never really been drawn to the little bit of what I've seen of their work. You know me, I tend to be more drawn to old German, Austrian, and French pieces, so I enjoyed your information about them. For what it's worth, on my screen the white of this set is a bright cool looking white. But that type of interpretation is just not possible to make conclusively without seeing pieces live. I agree that this set just looks too pristine for it to be a marked 17th century Varages. But it is similar to their mark from that period. The gold seems almost totally intact too, from what I can see. Hopefully someone else will weigh in on this with more info.
      And as for the faux-hallmarked mystery flask, I've just about run out of ideas on that one! I'm going to keep poking around for more info on this set, and if I find anything I'll leave a note here. As for the flask, I'm trying to ignore it for the time being. Hope you have a great Saturday! :-)
    7. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Hi, all! This morning, was dashing off to the Post Office before they closed, and didn't proof my comments. In Comment No. 3 above, I meant to congratulate chinablue on finding a French firm of an era that could have produced this style service, and that actually used the "+" mark - Varages. So, please let me recast some a foolishly worded statement I made in Comment No. 5 above.

      OK, I see no problem with a firm using a/an "+" / “x” to designate second quality. I haven't seen any, but I am not being modest when I say that I very little about porcelain! Chinablue, if you assert that this was sometimes used to designate lesser than first quality issues, I will believe you. : ) Obviously, Varages wouldn't use this mark to designate second quality. I think that the "+"/"x" mark on this service might be a counterfeit on a very high quality knock-off Varages service, or it might instead be a legit mark on a second quality service produced by another legit firm. I don't think that this mark would be used on a 'declared' legitimate reproduction of a Varages.

      I just found an interesting item. Please take a look at the decoration on this Sevres' tea caddy.

      A2ndChance, one need not think that the service is missing a cup. There are some tea services with just a single-user teapot, a sugar, creamer, tray, and one cup and saucer. (It's true that I'd be fretting if this were my service and I had only one cup, but only because I couldn't trot out this service to use at afternoon tea with a friend.) Question, do all items fit comfortably on the tray? Or, is there great crowding? If they don’t all fit on the tray, the tray might instead be a dish.

      Yes, I prefer the originals to Mottahedeh's reproductions.

      As an aside, follows a link to an interesting and potentially useful website.

      Well, I am seriously derelict from my Belgian WWI plaque research, so I'll have to be foolish later. : )

    8. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Thanks, chinablue for your kind words and good wishes! : ) I'll let you know if any intelligent opinion on the flask hallmarks should be found imprisoned in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT in my silly head.
    9. A2ndChance A2ndChance, 9 years ago
      Thank you very much for all the info! Very helpful! I followed Mikko's links and I found that the mark #2 under this page is more similar than any:
      They fit evenly on the tray.
      I had that same feeling on the age of it, it's in such a great quality: no age cracks, just the cover of the sugar is missing the flower. I have to say is hand painted and yes, a very bright white one.
      I would like to sell it, but in order to do that I have to find out what I am dealing with.
      I am so happy that I got so much info from you guys, is amazing !!! Thanks.
    10. Jezzer, 9 years ago
      Beyond the exceptional condition, I see no reason why this tea service could not be from the mid-to-late eighteenth century. The shapes, painted decoration, and the gilding are all "right" (with the possible exception of the shape of the cup's handle). Early porcelain services in condition as excellent as this do come up from time to time, especially since something like this was rarely used.

      Having said that, quality porcelain manufactories often started recycling their old moulds in the late 19th century because of a renewed interest in 18th-century fashions. Some, such as Nymphenburg, continue to this day. The only way to really tell for sure is to take it to the dealer of the highest quality antiques within driving distance, because if this is an 18-century service, it could be worth a small fortune. Even as a 19th-century set, it is still valuable so long as it's not a fake.
    11. Jezzer, 9 years ago
      Or, you could take it to a reputable auction house. The point is, it needs to be examined in person by someone who knows what to look for.
    12. miKKoChristmas11 miKKoChristmas11, 9 years ago
      Hello! I have been away due to illness, A2ndChance, and intended to weigh in on CW tomorrow; however, I saw this comment in my email tonight, and am delighted with Jezzer's advice. I agree about the necessity of an expert opinion, one delivered in person. I'm sure that chinablue does too. Best wishes for success, A2ndChance! : )
    13. A2ndChance A2ndChance, 9 years ago
      Hi guys and gals, under a black light I found something very interesting: "M. I. C. Samson" not visible to the naked eye, now does anyone knows what it means? I know Samson is the mark for replicas or something like that. Please help!!!!

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