An Interview With Antique Pocket Watch Collector Barry S. Goldberg
July 31st, 2008
By Maribeth Keane, Collectors Weekly Staff (Copyright 2008)
In this interview Barry S. Goldberg gives advice on collecting antique American made pocket watches. Barry is based in Melrose, Massachusetts, and his site, http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm is a member of our Hall of Fame.
I got started collecting pocket watches partly because I hated wearing wristwatches; I used to carry my wristwatch in my pocket, so I thought; why not just try getting a pocket watch. I happened to find one at an antique flea market. I was impressed by it, over a hundred years old and still running. A couple months later I saw another very nice antique pocket watch with a pretty dial on it, and I thought, I’m not collecting or anything, but I’ll have two. Pretty soon they just started growing on me. I fell into it. I was amazed at the workmanship. I love holding a little piece of history in my hands.
Collectors Weekly: Where do you find pocket watches?
Goldberg: A variety of places, flea markets and antique shows. I used to go to the Brimfield Antique Show out in Western Massachusetts that happened twice a year. I joined the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors, the NAWCC, and they had regular meetings where you could meet with other collectors and buy, sell, and trade with them. I also found watches on eBay, back when eBay was starting, the mid to late 90s, you could go on and find some good bargains.
Collectors Weekly: Who’s your favorite manufacturer?
16 size Hamilton model "992" Railroad dial
Goldberg: I really prefer the Waltham pocket watches, made by the American Waltham Watch Company in Waltham, Massachusetts. There are two things that I love about Waltham. It’s the oldest American watch company in terms of mass production. There were smaller companies that made watches by hand as far back as the 1700s, but Waltham was the first American company to use the assembly line to mass-produce watches. And second, they made pretty much every type of watch, which no other American company did. They made high-end Railroad watches, repeater watches that chimed on the hour, high-end chronographs, stop watches.
The company itself went out of business about 1953. The Waltham name has been either acquired or stolen by various companies over the years, so sometimes you’ll see a modern, cheap battery operated watch that has a big red W on it, but that has no relation to the Waltham Company.
Collectors Weekly: How many watches do you have in your collection?
Goldberg: I’d have to count, but I’d say about 40 or 50. Over the years I’ve had hundreds, but over time I’ve traded up to get better examples. When I started collecting, I had in my mind a growing list of the types of watches I wanted to buy, representative samples of various types of watches. I’d go to Brimfield and come home with 10 watches. There would be two I wanted to keep, and eight that were similar to ones I already had or were not in as good condition. So I’d sell those to help me buy another one I wanted. If I saw a better watch, I’d buy that watch and try to sell the lesser examples of it. That happens with Railroad watches, if I have a 21 jewel Waltham Vanguard and I have an opportunity to buy a 23 jewel Waltham Vanguard, I might sell the 21 jewel to help pay for the 23 jewel.
Collectors Weekly: What’s a railroad watch?
18 size Illinois "Bunn Special" Railroad pocket watch movement
Goldberg: They were built to specifications required for use on the railroad, including the number of jewels and the number of adjustments. Adjustments means the watch has been specially calibrated to keep constant time regardless of how it is held, adjusted to work in the vertical position, the horizontal position, the left, right, upside down position. Jewels are basically bearings on the various gears. A watch with no jewels is metal grinding on metal and pretty soon will stop. They’re real jewels like rubies, diamonds, and sapphires - the shaft of each wheel goes through this little donut shaped jewel to reduce the friction.
On a very high-grade watch, every single wheel or gear would have a jewel, one on the front and one on the back and what they call cap jewels to prevent it from going up or down. Lower-grade watches would only have them on the gears that are moving the fastest and a really crappy watch would only have one or two jewels or maybe none. These are not gem quality jewels, no one would take them out of a watch and try to sell them as jewelry, they are more industrial type jewels because the ruby, sapphire, and diamond are so hard, they make very good bearings because they don’t wear.
Collectors Weekly: How do you keep your watches in good condition?
Goldberg: I bring them in for a good cleaning so they can run. I have a friend who has a watch shop, and he does that for me. I do minor repair work, I’ve replaced broken glass crystals on occasion, but for the most part I try not to fiddle with them too much. They’re fragile and if you spend too much time taking them apart, there is the danger that you won’t be able to get them back together.
Collectors Weekly: Why do you like going to shows and flea markets?
16 size, 23 jewel Waltham Model #1899 movement
Goldberg: You get to hold the item in your hand and talk to the seller instead of just looking at a picture and hoping it’s real. The downside is that you can wander around hours and never find anything you’re looking for, whereas online you can do a search for pocket watches and they are displayed in front of you. So if I have time, I prefer to buy at a show. The other thing about buying at shows is you really need to know what you’re looking at, be prepared, because you don’t have the luxury of thinking something is interesting, going to do some research, and coming back the next day to the listing. So you can make mistakes and think that something looks interesting and buy it just in case, and get home and find out it’s not worthwhile.
Collectors Weekly: How do you do your research?
Goldberg: I primarily use a variety of books. There’s a kind of watch collectors bible by Shougart called The Complete Price Guide to Watches. There’s also a whole series of books put out by a company called Heart of America Press, the owner recently passed away, but he had a good variety of watch books.
Collectors Weekly: Is there a certain date of manufacture you won’t collect past?
Goldberg: I don’t have a hard and fast date, but really any watch made after the 1930s isn’t going to interest me. Even the later Walthams made in the 1940s, 1950s, at that point they were really cutting the corners and they just don’t appeal to me. One thing I loved about the old watches is the workmanship and as they got away from that they became less interesting.
Collectors Weekly: What parts of the pocket watch most attracted you at first?
Goldberg: The mechanisms. I was really draw to the key wound watches at first. Just the history and the fact that it’s such a bygone time, using a little key to wind your watch and watching the mechanisms move back and forth. The other parts of the watch are nice, I really enjoy a finely made case and a fancy dial, but to be honest it really is the mechanisms or what we call the movements of the watch that inspire me. If you look on my watch pages you’ll see that I always include the movements of the watch.
Collectors Weekly: What are the cases typically made out of?
Goldberg: Different metals, silver, gold, a lot of them are gold-filled, which is two very thin sheets of gold on the outside around a thicker layer of brass. You have watches that have cases made from a wide variety of silver color material, with a colorful trade names like silveride, usually nickel based. Gold watches are appealing to collectors but the value really has to do with what was appropriate to the watch at the time. If the particular watch was only ever offered in a nickel case, then putting it in a gold case isn’t necessarily going to make it a better watch.
Collectors Weekly: What’s a two-tone movement?
Goldberg: It’s a way of decorating a watch movement. Sometimes it involved actually using two different colors or types of metal so you got a two-tone effect. Sometimes it was the way they acid washed the movement itself, I personally think those are some of the most beautiful. They would actually use acid to engrave and change the color of the metal plates.
Collectors Weekly: I see that you made your own guide to pocket watches?
Waltham case Model #1908
Goldberg: Yes, its a 40-page book called The New Collectors Guide to Pocket Watches. People were asking me the same questions over and over, questions you really needed to understand before you started reading the big books, which assumed you already knew the basics. I had a section on my website of frequently asked questions that just kept growing and growing and people suggested that I put it into a book format. It allowed me to add some illustrations and really expand on it.
The most popular questions were things like how do I set my watch? How do I open my watch? What are jewels? How can my watch be adjusted? What is a Railroad watch? Are my watches really gold or gold filled? Also, European watches have foreign words written all over them and a lot of people don’t understand that they usually have nothing to do with who made the watch, they’re general descriptions on the watch.
Collectors Weekly: What about European pocket watches?
Goldberg: I’ve collected European watches as well, but not as heavily. European watches tend to be very expensive in the U.S., and hard to maintain because watch makers here don’t have the expertise and knowledge to make repairs to them. The European watches weren’t mass produced, they were made by hand, so any replacement parts have to be made by hand. Whereas if a hand broke off of your Waltham or a gear was damaged, the watchmaker could reach into his drawer where he has 500 replacements and fix it for you. So I decided early on that I should focus on the American.
Collectors Weekly: Do you see lots of reproduction pocket watches?
Goldberg: Not as much with pocket watches as with wristwatches. What you do see is reproductions of the dials and the actual face of the watch, because they were primarily porcelain, and tended to break over the years. There’s a booming secondary market with people putting together very cheap metal dials with just laser printed paper stuck on there. Or a hand painted dial that looks like a dial from 200 years ago. People sell those and then somebody puts them on watches and tries to sell it as a 200 year old watch when in fact it’s just a 60 year old watch with a fake dial.
6 size Waltham Model #1888
The same thing can happen with high-end Railroad watches, which are very collectible. These are the highest-grade watches that were made by the American watch companies in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Those had very specific dials, which over time got damaged and there was a market for reproduction dials. Those Railroad watches by themselves are pretty valuable, but if they have a perfect dial and a perfect case and a perfect movement, they’ll command a much higher price. So, if people produce a reproduction dial, and again they might be selling them very innocently, the next person buys it and puts it on eBay saying it’s in mint condition, perfect all around original. The watch itself is not a reproduction, but the dial was made 10 years ago.
For most collectors, if a pocket watch doesn’t have an original dial, they don’t want it. I’m less picky, and because I can never afford the best of the best, I have watches in my collection that don’t have perfect dials, or they have a little crack or chip. I still prefer that over a perfect reproduction dial, because at least I know it’s original, it’s authentic.
Collectors Weekly: What advice do you have for someone just starting to collect pocket watches?
Goldberg: Learn as much as you can before you spend too much money. Buy the Complete Price Guide to Watches, because that’s a really good overview of what’s out there and the prices you should be looking to pay. Join your local chapter of the NAWCC, because the best way to get experience is to talk to other collectors. I certainly wouldn’t discourage people from going out there and buying watches, but I’d say be careful and don’t try to buy the most expensive watches you can find. Until you know what you’re looking for, you can spend a lot of money on junk.
Collectors Weekly: Anything else you’d like to mention?
Goldberg: I just think that pocket watches are a wonderful way to own a tangible piece of history. They’re something from a bygone era that isn’t made anymore and it’s amazing that something made 100 to 200 years ago can still be running after all that time.
(All images in this article courtesy Barry S. Goldberg, http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm)
I have a Waltham 17 jewel 14kt gold case model 1884. The numbers are unique in that they are not vertical,they are horizontal,(ex.3&9). The others start slowly rotating into a vertical position. Could you let me know if this is an antique pocket watch. Thank you
A pocket watch has come into my posession and it is so unsual could you tell me anything about it please.
The watch is 2 1/2 inches in diameter not measuring the crown or loop it has no makers name or numbers on it and also the face is upside down (ie the 12 is at the bottom)there is no seconhand to this watch either.
Many thanks
In 1973 I found an Elgin pocket watch in a field. I was told it was a railroad watch. The back case has 10K gold filled and the number 64578. The workings are BW Raymond 21 jewels with a serial number 33934621. The workings are in excellent shape and the watch works perfectly. Can you tell me how old and the approximate value of this watch. Is there a way to find out who owned this watch?
Hi Mr.Goldberg, I recently started collecting pocket watches I have 2 WOW.
I have a 1923 vintage Waltham that my father left me & I recently bought a Hamilton Railroad watch that the front & back screws on. I hate to sound ignorant, but what is the safest way to open it up to set it? I also plan to carry one or the other most of the time. Hope to hear from U soon.
Clyde Sellers in Texas
Dear Mr. Goldberg,
Thank you for your website. I love railroad watches. I have never bought one. I have been reading like mad for some time and I have seen much of what’s out there. After that fascinating journey of study I have come to the Hamilton 992B, or the 950B. I love most of their different cases (or models), and I find their movements beautiful. My two questions are: 1) Were these two watches equally easy to repair, and equally practical? I mean the 21-jewel, Elinvar-Extra 992B, and the 23-jewel Elinvar-Extra 950B. And 2) Was there really any real difference in their accuracy?
Thank you, Mr. Foldberg. Hapy New Year.
Oscar Zambrano.
I have a Walthem Pocket Watch #18070280 w/ a wood case . Wonder about it . Cant find info
I have a G.W. Fairchild & Sons pocket watch which I believe was made circa 1900. I can’t seem to find any information or value of this piece. Can you help me?
Thanks,
EK
My friend has a pocket watch or clock, it has a wooden case, Roman numerals. On the wooden edge at 4 o’clock there are marks-1791 3891 H HH. The clock or watch has been in their family since 1840. His mother( born 1910 ) remembered it hanging on the wall in the livingroom about 1915. The face is 3 5/16 in dia. mechanism 3″ dia. 1 1/4 inch thick. Could you tell him anything about this watch or clock?
Thank You Very Much!
I have a men’s silver cased pocket watch manufactured by American Watch Co. in 1872. It is an 18 size, 15 jeweled key wind and a rare key set type. The serial number is 624695. The case serial number is 1528764 and is the original.
The watch is wound both by key in the back of the unit as well as the hands are also set with the key through the stem. The watch is in very good working order and was restored and regulated by my father in Apr 1999.
Dan Steward
(812) 303-1390
I have a Waltham pocket watch don’t know much about. if you can help me to get to know more about it i would thank you a lot.all i can tell you on the case is n3314 and n5730k and it has philadelphia watch case on it. it has the # 8592268.it is a old R/R watch and the #14455459 in side with Am.waltham watch com. it was pass down from my grandfather. i don’t wont to sell it because i’d like to pass on to my kids.just like to know what i got. thanks todd
Hi;I have 3 watches I was hoping you can tell me something about the first is a Hamilton Railway special pocket watch 992B/21Jewels on the back cover it reads Hamilton Watch Co. 10K Gold filled Lancaster.PA # 1346216 & A couple other numbers I can barely make out the first is 4872 and 2nd is 747. The 2nd is a wrist watch made by wittnauer(revue)on the back cover it reads Wittnauer, New York,Geneva Montreal,Wadsworth,10K Gold filled, #T772138. The 3rd is all so is a wrist watch it is a Bulova ,10K RGP, Pat pend D021626. Any information would be appreciated like the year they were made and value, etc. The pocket watch does not work.
hi, I have an elgin pocket watch just # serial ,all script written. Back case has 1884 patent, and movement are numbered but elgin natl. watch co are all in beautiful script as well as elgin t u on bottom of watch below movement. please let me know anything about it.
I have a Watham colonial “Royal”. I believe it’s from 1924. My questions is the crystal on the face is cloudy, does this make it’s value less? Should I replace it with a new one? Does engraving on the back plate add or lose the watches value?
My dad has an old pocket watch.Its got Abraham lincoln’s name engraved on the watch.This watch was given to my grandfather from the railroad.I’m just trying to find out some info on this old watch.My dad says it might have a pre 1900 date.The watch has 21 jewels and 5 rubies in side the watch.Any help would be awesome.
My brother-in-law has a railroad pocket watch left to him by his father. It belong to his grandfather or great-grandfather not sure. On open face is Hampden Watch Co. inside is railway 2812584 special, the Hampden Watch Co 23 Jewels adjusted____________ payments (best I can read) Canton, Ohio. Can you give me information about this watch for him. Thank you very much for you assistance.
I have a Hampton railroad watch. The watch number is 2659384. My uncle gave it to me, years ago, and my uncle said it was his father’s watch. I am reading the above of Carolyn Dugas Says questions; so you can repeat your same information. I suspect, my watch was manufactured in the late l800’s. My uncle said the watch was kept in his safe deposit box and I never use it. So it is fine shape. I am curious of its value give or take sight unseen.
Thank you.
Hello, an old pocket watch has come to my possession from my grandfather. I don’t know anything about these watches but I have done some research online and just can’t find the exact same watch. Here is what I know: it has a montgomery dial, says”ILLINOIS” on the dial, on the inside “guts” says, A.Lincoln, ILLINOIS WATCH CO. SPRINGFIELD. adj. 5 positions, double roller, 21 jewels, sn# 2342912, open face, screw/bezel back. and has a short wide stem. it is in working condition. I read it was made in 1911. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank You, Colleen.
Hi. I have a pocket watch that I believe may have belonged to my great grandfather. Have tried to research for information on the web, but can ot find anything close to this one. Information on the watch says it was made by American Waltham Watch Co. It appears to be gold, the design on the case looks like flowers (maybe roses) with a small overlaping squares, on the upper right of the case and one on the lower left. The inside front opening has the number 2096456. The first opening on the back also has the same number, but it looks like someone has scratched “12172A” beside that number. The second opening on the back has the same number again. Inside the watch it says “safety barrel-5210144″. and on the outter rim is another number 96456. Could you tell me when the watch was made and what the name of it is? Thank You, Mike….
I was given a Hampton 23 jewel watch from where my great grandfather worked on the railroad. It is engraved railroad on the back and it is from Canton Ohio. I have the serial number and such from the inside. Can you please point me in the right direction to find out value and such. Thank you John
I recently received a pocketwatch that belonged to my father who passed away in 1990. It is not in great condition. (Hour hand missing, not well kept, might have been flooded during a hurricane in N.O. in the 70’s. When I removed the back I was amazed to see the beautiful mechanical workings and various clock markings–A.W.W.Co. Waltham U.W. 17 Jewels (top), 23806599 (bottom). Scratched on the back is A 3102 (top), ROY-14K 585/1000 FINE (Hallmark)and 838598 stamped underneath. The crystal and face need a good cleaning. Please let me know if I should pursue cleaning and fixing this pocketwatch.
I have just recieved my grandfathers Elgin pocket watch. It has the numbers 29924529 on it. The cover the jeweler states is made of nickel has the number 7158320 on it with the stamp of Star W.C. co. I would be interested in the following. When was it produced. At about what cost at that time? what might it be worth today? Thankyou for your help.
I have a Hampden gold pocket watch,Fahy - Monarch no.1 -#29349.
Inscribed in its mechanism.. Henry Plum’s, Des Moines, Ia. #198995.
Roman numeral on dial. Can you tell me more about it’s history and
value.
Thanks, c
have two pocket watches i would like info on, first one is a hamilton 1211804? and it says central city1209634 inside. second one is 2084790 canton oh, and 811129 inside it has a scale picture on watch not sure of name if you could give me a little info or send me in the right direction i would appreciate it thanks, steve
I have an Elgin RR Pocket Watch that belonged to my grandfather. He passed away in 1952 suggesting this watch may be dated to the 1940’s. There are no incriptions on the case itself except under the winding stem is incribed “ELGIN RR”. The face is white and just has “ELGIN”. Under the Second Hand it appears to read “INVAR BALANCE” that is very clear but even with a maginfying glass, my eyes are not sure of the first word. I have not attempted to open it and in advance of me taking it to a Jeweler, what can you tell me about this Elgin?
Regards,
Dennis
I have a American Waltham W.Co.(pocket watch) this appears on the face of the watch. Open the case and on the back incised is: Art C. Patton July 4, 1880. Inside the front (case)is 10376 T. & Co. any info you can supply would be helpful thanks, Primas
I have a Waltham pocket watch, 15 jewels, no. 13683290. I believe it,s a 1904 watch. The mechanism does’nt work, maybe dirty or something else. It’s a gold case with no glass cover. It is on a leather strap with a caterpillar medal on the leather strap. Would like to know the value for selling and where can I get it repair.
Regards,
Anne
I have a Waltham 14 KT - 19 Jewels Men Pocket Watch, approximately 2″ in diamater from sometime in the 1800’s. It is in perfect working condition and not even a scratch on the crystal. It is a chrono (or has the second at the bottom) There is a number engraved on the inside Roy 896697 with the name P. J. Barlett engraved on the inside where the word 19 jewels is engraved. Can you give me any information on this watch? Thank you.
Hi, Like your site on rail road watch, I have one and wanted to find out more about it , it has a train on the inside of it, and is silver or nickel I think and a train with a women man and child on the outside on it do you know anything about this watch. Netec on the inside with the train. Also on the outside is a car old with a women and men and child riding in it , its neet I made a mistake on what I told you before. So also have a pear quartz silver , do you know anything about that or where I could find out , thanks for listening, get back// have a great day no more rain/// Ha///
I have a A.W.W.CO WALTHAM MASS.pocket watch #2838818,it has a design on the front covering the watch,which also has the seconds at the bottom,there is also a back cover as well.It appears its gold.My Dad always wore it when he was dressed up.He was born 1890,so I would guess the watch to be about 1910,but he could of bought it second-hand.I would appreciate any information you may have and its worth. Thank you so much.
Hi I have a watch that appears to be a pocket watch but the odd thing is that the winding stem is at 6:00 and rather long. There has no bail for a chain. Was this watch meant to sit in a cradle or holder of some kind and not be carried on ones person? Thank you very much. Doug