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Posted 15 months, 27 days ago
cocacolaki…
(120 items)
I think I may have something here. It maybe a confederate civil war hat, probably hand made. The outside is a blue wool, appears hand stitched, with a leather strap and viser. It could be a reanactment hat, but I'm not sure. It has a name, and it looks old. The inside of it has a pillow case/ bed sheet kinda cloth. There are sweat marks, the cloth just feels old. I think the strap could of been replaced, cause it looks so new, and it dosen't go down, ruining the purpose of the strap. The buttons look old as well. If it's a replica/ reproduction, it's a very well made one.
The button should be back marked either "Superior Quality" or "Buckley & Co." and also should be a 2 piece button. Alberts Military button book list as an Army General Service 2 Piece.
I can't really read the back, but I think I can't see any lettering. But the buttons are too good of quality, and/ or have good patina on it for them to be replicas.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~haywood/cwquest/gmartin.htm
http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/harrison/bios/martin.txt
and there are two buttons. one on each side.
http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/harrison/bios/martin.txt
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~haywood/cwquest/gmartin.htm
i found these:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~haywood/cwquest/gmartin.htm
http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/harrison/bios/martin.txt
I looked on ancestery too a year ago. It turns out there was 100s to 1000s of george w. martins in the confederate states
lol wow.
Check out this page, maybe help ID the button.
http://relicman.com/buttons/zArchiveButtonConGovA2GenService.htm
There could be lettering, but could be very faint. I can remove the button, and I think easily put it back on.
But there's also possibility that it could be wartime manufactorer and not have a compmay name on it
I just noticed the hat liner, that would have been bed ticking, common material from that period for mattresses and pillow cases.
If this hat turns out to be fake, I'll just take the buttons. They are probably original
Like I said, I think it's homemade, and not company manufactured. And they ordered, or bought the buttons. And hand stiched everything. But I think it was restored or something because the strap dosen't work like it's supossed to. But it could be just for looks.
Why has no one questioned the fact that it is blue?
Early in the war uniforms of all kinds were used on both sides, leading to confusion, and disaster. By the end of the war, the colors were better established with gray for the South and blue for the North.
To be blue, would seem to indicate early war. But the CSA buttons would seem to indicate later. ???
Early in the war Militia uniforms existed both North and South and Southern and Northern uniforms were often manufactured uniforms of various styles.
Later in the war, much of the southern uniform was "homemade" as the blockade prevented much from entering from manufacturers overseas, and little came from the northern factories, though some items did early on. The South did not have much manufacturing nor man power for them and most of that was put to use making weapons. Women commonly made the clothing, or they were scavenged from the battlefield. Homemade is not a problem, except that it is blue.
If this was a manufactured hat, with CSA buttons I would expect that it had been battlefield scavenged and the buttons changed. But it is not. The north, with all her factories did not have need of "homemade" items for uniforms. So it is not likely a scavenged northern blue hat.
No answer ... just another question, or two.
Also ... why fake a CSA hat, that is Blue?
I really don't know, maybe I have something special here. But most likely, I think that it maybe a reanactment hat. It's in too good of shape, and I think they used antique parts to make it look realistic close up. This hat is truly a mystery. I have common bad luck of buying things that are on the edge of being fake or being real.
Don't quit yet Kid. ... Why fake a *blue* CSA hat for re-enactment hat?
The materials look genuine. If it is a fake, they didn't do it for re-enactments.
Maybe it could be real, and onced was restored at a time. But do you think it's genuine?
The biggest question as to period, is the name. No one was named George then ... just joking.
But really, look at the ink. The ink in the 1860s was iron based and browned over the years. It was written with a dip pen or a quill. A fine line like these letters would not have been possible. This name was not written period to the 1860s. It would have to have been added much later than the Civil War.
Also writing the name on the hat band, where they head would touch would likely have cause blurring with wear. Also the leather of the hat band would nave been worn smooth if worn long and the oils of the hair and skin would have darkened the leather as well.
Look for a George W. Martin in your area today. And ask him what he knows of the hat.
actully, I found this piece in the south. Specificly florida, and I got over 230 results on ancestery.
Plsu, I wouldn't think it would be in print. Didn't everybody get schooled to write in cursive?
Is the name written to the part to the cloth?
In the other photo, it seems the hat band is smooth and darkened more at the forehead, which would be correct.
Skip ancestry as the name is not old.
You are correct about the printing. They did write cursive with dip pens, as it is the only way to write with a dip pen for any speed. Little printing was done and that was with a pencil.
hatband is smooth, and does darken at forehead
That indicates wear. Not faked. I still hold that the hat is old, the name is not. Likely a later person who owned it. If it had been bought locally to you, I would be looking for a modern day Martin not a Civil War Martin. It could have been passed down in his family, or collected by him. He likely labeled it with his name to make sure he didn't lose it.
Forehead wear allows for more rubbing and the forehead oil, sweat and dirt, will stain there, worse than the rest. If it was all the same, I would say fake.
There are more factors then I thought, would you think the strap was replaced at one time? Becasue, it doesn't have an adjuster on it, so, it completely ruins the purpose of it. It it looks like it has no wear.
I'ts real .
An adjustable chin strap does not seem to be on all Kepis. The vast majority do, not all heavy leather as this one. Some are thin leather strap, others are decorative cording.
The first Kepi looks genuine enough and does not seem to have an expandable chin strap.
http://www.coylesauction.com/img/img2008/img052008/civilWar/282kepi.jpg
This site is interesting with several views of two different hats. One is noted to "seem to be fully hand sewn" and it is a CSA.
http://www.gallarock.com/cap-canteen.html
Auction with Kepi and other Civil War etc military items and prices realized
http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/catalog.aspx?page=16&SaleId=108
These are just thrown in ...
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/2009/10/Civil-War-Hat-1.htm
http://www.filsonhistorical.org/media/14391/kepi-apirtle.jpg
How much do you think it's worth?
yea it blue most confederate hat were gray but some where a very light blue because it looked gray it thinking replica or reanactment
http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/Union-Blue-Enlisted-Kepi-No-Insignia~C000267.cfm
$30 on other sites.
Buttons, too...
http://winchestersutler.com/BUTN.html
If it was mine, ... I would have to first determine if it is authentic before I was willing to sell it.
As I said before ... There is no reason to fake a blue CSA hat.
I believe it is real and has a story to tell. Don't give up until you find that story.
I wish I could hold it and use other senses, besides my eyes, to examine it. If there are no Civil War experts in you area, find a vintage clothes collector to examine the cloth.
AR8Jason, I would NEVER sell anything that intrest someone to the point that they would want to see it in person. I'm pretty sure my town's museum, Michigan Historical Museum, can tell something of an idea of how this could be real or authentic. I bought for 20 bucks at a Civil War booth in an antique mall. The guy had a variety of Civil War artifacts, I just wish he was there that day to tell me more about it. blair, it wouldn't be a fake or an reanactment hat because, why would it have CSA buttons on it, be blue, and someone to throw it on and be a confederate??? Like Jason said, if it was a replica/ reproduction it would be gray. It would've also cost alot of money to make, since it looks to be hand made, with bed tick, thick leather, staining/ blacking of brown forehead leather from years of wear. And brown sweat stains in the cloth. It certanly shows lots of wear for it being a replica...
But once I find out about it i'll tell everybody about this one-of-a kind find.
I was just looking at a Prussian military helmet and the thing that sticks out to me is ....The prussian helmet is much newer (ww1 era) but appears to be much older than your civil war era hat . Just a thought ,Jack
Sorry, but it looks like a reenactor item.
These are made today to outfit reenactors in clothing that closely resembles Civil War era construction. It is important to most reenactors to be "historically correct". Many different companies (Sutlers) sell these items.
The underside of the chin strap is very telling-- there is absolutely no age to it. The head band edge also shows it is new. The bed ticking material in the liner is also pristine.
The name (as commented earlier) is in modern writing and probably indicates the reenactor's name.
Scott
I agree with Scott.
scott, then why is it blue? seems to make sense that it would be gray or some other color for a reeanactment. Plus, I had a feeling that this was for a reeanactment.
Many early war uniforms on BOTH sides were blue-- caused much confusion.
Additionally, many early war Northern militia uniforms are gray in color.
Scott
Cokefan says it is not real, and now wants it?
Post 42 points out what I said in post 15.
Post 40 ... that is the question. Why would they make blue for a reenactment? They are very big on detail and authentic. While it would have been authentic, many would not know it and challenge it.
AR8Jason, I am interested because I have not been able to find anything else like it. I collect unique items (check out my items) and this would go great with my collection.
COKE FAN ... My question is, have your changed your mind? Real or not real.
I like it because it is a puzzle. It seems that is the same reason you like it.
I also like it because it is a puzzle. I enjoy buying items and doing research to try to determine their past. I like items with mysterious histories and this fits the bill.
I will hope then I hit the markets before you do and you don't show up at the same auctions I do. ;-)
I am sure you will because I doubt if we are in the same region.