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Early 11" 644 gram London sterling platter -Unknown maker???

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Sterling Silver Trays12 of 38The 11"  London sterling platter marks. Please help identify?Sterling?? Salt & Pepper Dish
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Posted 1 year ago

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julius012
(16 items)

Can anyone help me identify the age and maker of this platter? It must be early due to the crowned lions, the one on the right has his tongue out. I could find no other example with the little star, with two crowned lions, or with the figure on the front of the plate. I thank you in advance for any help; Greg

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Comments

  1. vetraio50 vetraio50, 1 year ago
    These are the only marks? No date letter? I have to say I find these marks 'curious'.
  2. julius012, 1 year ago
    I am with you. No date letter anywhere, I have searched for hours and only left scratching my head... Thanks for the comments and interest; Greg
  3. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    vetraio50, and julius012 please see my comments on the other posting, I happen to agree with vetraio50, after searching the archives for Hanau markings I too find this 'curious'. It is not consistent with any system I know of.
  4. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    to me...none of these markings make me think English. Not even the "lion passant" This is tricky.
  5. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    I am glad vetraio came upon this posting, I was hoping you would!
  6. julius012, 1 year ago
    I am so excited to see the interest that this mysterious piece of history has generated. When I do find the answers, and I will, I will be sure to share them with all you awesome fellow collectors. Greg
  7. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    OK Greg, sounds great. I can't wait to hear more. I hope we could help you out. In the meantime I will check my books to see if I can come up with something. I haven't had any luck online. Take care. Is there any info. you can give us about the plate? Were and how did you get it? etc?
  8. julius012, 1 year ago
    I got it from a guy whose grandmother had passed and left him her sterling. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. I can't believe the way that you and the other great people on this site are so willing to go out of your way to help. You are such good people!!!
  9. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    The markings actually are English, the crowned lion was discontinued in the early 19th century, Google to find out exactly. The star is probably the maker. Don't know why there isn't a date mark though, never seen a set of hallmarks missing it
  10. julius012, 1 year ago
    Thank you stillwater! I was sure hoping it was a very early English piece. I must admit, I am also hoping that this difficulty in identifying it means that it is extremely rare as well. Very exciting, and puzzling mystery!
    Thanks again to all you wonderful collectors that are trying to help me; Greg
  11. julius012, 1 year ago
    I had to quit my job to care for my son with severe cerebral palsy, and am desperately hoping for good news on this piece to sell and help us keep afloat this next month. Your help has meant more to me than you know; Greg & Julius
  12. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    I don't mean to doubt Stillwater's opinion, but how can we explain the absence of a duty mark? There's not enough structure to be English, no date mark, and especially for pre 1800 silver I would expect the makers mark to be initials.
  13. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    Greg & Julius, most people on this site are kind and willing to help! I have experienced very caring people who are willing to take time to help others. I have spent some time searching, but I haven't had any luck. I will continue to keep an eye out for you. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see you soon on CW! Take care!
  14. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    Well regardless of all those things, the crowned leopard and the lion passant are simply Brittish marks, theres no other country that it could be. Even the pattern that this piece is in is very Brittish. The marks might be fraudulent though. Something looks strange about both the lion and the leopard, the cartouche is wrong on the lion, shouldn't be a perfect rectangle, and they both look crude.
  15. julius012, 1 year ago
    Fraudulent? I must say, my excitement has crashed... Thank you for your time though; Greg
  16. nldionne nldionne, 1 year ago
    Don't give up until you know for sure.
  17. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    They probably aren't though, its probably sterling. Just stick the darn on eBay and see what you get for it. Don't take it to a gold/silver buyer, they don't care about collector value, they'll give you under spot, and they'll rip you off if they think they can
  18. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    It is weird though, the cartouche I mean. Thats actually a part of the hallmark, not just a background for the lion, and the corners should either be flattened or smoothed out with a point at the bottom middle, like a shield.

    What the heck is that thing on the top of the platter? A dragon??
  19. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    Ah well there we go, no duty marks after 1890, thanks Strawberry. Those free-appraisal places never get back to you, they're inundated with requests every day and they won't prioritize you unless they're making money off you

    I'd say its definitely Brittish BHock, the lion and the leopard are both Brittish marks, no matter what's wrong with the other ones. Even the pattern is classic of early Brittish hollware
  20. Stillwater Stillwater, 1 year ago
    "Earlier" actually, not early.
  21. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    Stillwater, just playing devil's advocate here. But check out the markings by "Linchong or Lynchong" in the following link. The lion and the leopard are included on this Chinese export marking:

    http://www.925-1000.com/chinex_marks.html

    There are plenty of lions seen on Indian Colonial Silver marks seen here:
    http://www.925-1000.com/AngloIndian_01.html

    As far as this comment, "According to the book 'Bradbury's Book of Hallmark 1544 to 1976', Great British duty marks appear on articles made between 1st Dec 1784 and 30th April 1890, with the exception of articles not liable to compulsory hallmarking such as watchcases after 1798."

    If this piece was made after 1890 there would be no duty mark, correct, but the leopard would be uncrowned (started in 1822). This piece may very well be sterling, I am not saying it isn't. But, just because we have something that looks like the sterling lion and the crowned leopard does not, in my mind, make it British.

    Stillwater, I cannot comment on the structure of the piece, I am sure you are correct about that, I do not have enough knowledge to know whether this is a British pattern or not. I am not saying anyone is wrong, just playing devil's advocate.

  22. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    And I do not know enough about fraudulent marks to say that these fake marks.
  23. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    Well...I guess there is the chance this is very old, then it would be crowned and no duty mark, 1600's or 1700's. I cannot find a lion like this, or figure out why there are two leopard's heads. ??
  24. julius012, 1 year ago
    There is hope!!! I wish I could meet you all in person. You are such awesome people! Thank you once again! Greg
  25. julius012, 1 year ago
    That was suggested by Bhock, but I couldn't find a match. The picture doesn't show it well but lion on the right has his tongue out like I noticed in early pieces out of London. Thanks; Greg
  26. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    julius012, I am sorry but I think I am stumped here. Either this doesn't exist, or I simply cannot find it. I've gone through text after text and several important websites, but I have had no luck. I will keep an eye out though!! Best of luck!
  27. julius012, 1 year ago
    Wow! I certainly would never have expected that anyone would have put the effort that you have into helping me, someone you don't even know, with no benefit to yourself. I will let you know the outcome if I ever figure it out. You really are awesome; Greg
  28. BHock45 BHock45, 1 year ago
    julius012, thanks! here is how I see it: many people have helped me on CW solve mysteries. In order to keep it moving all I have to do is help others such as yourself. There is a huge benefit in working on mysteries like yours. Education! Mostly everything I know about silver has come from doing research and talking to people like stillwater and vetraio50. So I hope we were able to help you!
  29. Yohanna Yohanna, 10 months ago
    look for psuedo hallmarks and the 5 pointed star to the left could be italy

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