Posted 3 years ago
Jeremy25
(2 items)
I have a few thing to fix on this Manhattan but the easy part is the wood work. I was wondering if anyone can help me with more information on this sewing machine. About all I can dig up is the time around when the company started and ended. I need more detailed info on the model. All I can make out on the side is Manhattan D then it has No. 10 on the front right bottom corner. Any info would be greatly appreciated. My number is 318-519-8865.
Hi, Jeremy25. :-)
I'm reading in between the lines here a bit, but it seems that you may think your machine was made by the Manhattan Sewing Machine Company:
*snip*
Manhattan Manhattan Sewing Machine Co. ca. 1868 ca. 1880
*snip*
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/32677/32677-h/32677-h.htm
I suppose that's possible, but they're extremely rare, per expert Harry Berzack in a 2009/2010 interview:
*snip*
For example, there's an American machine called the Manhattan, and there are only two known Manhattans that have survived. I have one and Carter Bays has the other. It was made by a New York company that called themselves Manhattan Sewing Machine Company. They made very few machines, probably less than 2,000, and then they disappeared.
*snip*
http://ismacs.net/sewing_machine_articles/harry-berzack-interview.html
Here is another machine that has "Manhattan" stenciled on it. It really doesn't look much like yours, other than the Manhattan name:
Antique MANHATTAN SEWING MACHINE in TIGER OAK Case ~ National Sewing Machine Co.This Rare to see vintage National Rotary "MANHATTAN" sewing machine is in overall very good condition. It is a truly beautiful machine! Made in 1871 - 1872 by The MANHATTAN Sewing Machine Company, 645 Broadway, New York. There is some minor wear to the domed Tiger Stripe Oak case, the finish is original & shows glorious Tiger Stripe grain figure throughout. MANHATTAN stenciled gold graphics intact. See photos. Rests upon a beautiful matching Tiger Stripe Oak base. An equally beautiful NATIONAL Sewing friction motor works, but will need a new power cord spliced in to the lead. See photos. (Made by the National Sewing Machine Co. Belvidere, Ill. Patented May 22nd, 1917) Serial #: 2B107974AL: 20.5" H: 13.5" D: 9"
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-manhattan-sewing-machine-1802246248
Here's another (actually, it looks like it could be the same one in the Worthpoint listing):
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/41289-manhattan-sewing-machine--information-n
This Brunswick machine looks a lot like your machine:
http://www.geocities.ws/claw.geo/brunsw_4.jpg
http://www.geocities.ws/claw.geo/eldredge.html
Note the top leaf tension assembly, the circular needle plate, the dual slide plates, and the round, convex access panel at the juncture of the horizontal and vertical arms.
I do suspect that what you have is a National sewing machine:
*snip*
National probably produced more badged names than any other company.
*snip*
http://needlebar.org/nbwiki/index.php/National_Sewing_Machine_Company
You could ask for another opinion from the very knowledgeable vintage sewing machine enthusiasts at the quilting board forum:
https://www.quiltingboard.com/main-f1/
https://www.quiltingboard.com/sendmessage.php
However, they would probably want you to provide more and better pictures of your machine. You only provided one here, and it's less than ideal (neither sufficiently close nor focused, and the background is distracting).
Here are more vintage sewing machine resources:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/285089-vintage-sewing-machine-help
Good luck. :-)
Yes and Thank you!
I will send better pictures when I get back home next week but it Clearly has Manhattan and it looks like a D right after Manhattan. I’ve only done two singers before. I will read up on all this and see.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/291516-manhattan-sewing-machine
Jeremy25, You're welcome. :-)
Just to recapitulate, I think your machine was made by the National Sewing Machine Company, and is a model VB-TT Type 5.
It's a "badged" machine:
*snip*
I heard about machines being "badged", what does this mean?
In the 1890 to 1940 period there was a fad with large retailers and mail order houses to sell "own brand" sewing machines.
To do this they entered into contracts with established sewing machine manufacturers who would supply standard models but with the name of choice substituted for the normal brand name.
ISMACS has records of nearly 5000 such "exclusive" names produced by half a dozen makers during this period.
The situation is further confused in that retailers might switch makers at the end of a contract period and the same name would then appear on a completely different machine by another manufacturer.
*snip*
http://ismacs.net/faq.html#badged
There is no central database of National serial numbers, so dating yours (serial number 3005230) becomes a process of comparing it to other vintage National sewing machines for which the serial number is known and which have been dated by other means, such as Wayne Schmidt's vintage "Willamette D" National sewing machine (serial number 2296351, made circa 1914).
Ok I will definitely get better pictures when I get back home and thank you so much for the info. This is more than I have been able to find over the few months. So if I understand you right.... that National sewing machine company use to produce sewing machines and put other companies names on them..??
If so that makes it harder. Lol
Also..... what about the cabinet.?? Does it have anyway of identifying it? I have already fixed the drawer locks and bottom slide channels for the drawers. I still have to get the hinges for the tip out tray in the front. I have the front drawer/tray but there is something missing where it was attached.
The singer I did was so much easier.
Hi again, Jeremy25. :-)
I don't know if I linked the ISMACS article about National before, but here it is now:
http://ismacs.net/national/from_eldredge_to_national_to_janome.html
Essentially, no other sewing machine company was as well documented as Singer. White was probably the next most well documented.
As to your machine's cabinet, ISMACS has a few drawings of cabinets in which National sewing machines were installed, but nothing that looks like yours:
http://ismacs.net/national/reversed_b_sewing_machine_and_cabinet.html
http://ismacs.net/national/rotary_b_cabinets.html
What your cabinet most closely resembles is Singer's Cabinet Table No. 2:
http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/cabinet_table_no_2-3.html
I did find this interesting one:
https://www.quiltingboard.com/attachments/vintage-antique-machine-enthusiasts-f22/449978d1386232437-imag0036.jpg
https://www.quiltingboard.com/6439618-post1.html
Hmmm, here is another one where the center drawer swings out from one side:
https://ebth-com-production.imgix.net/2015/11/30/22/22/01/865/SpringfieldDay8-413.jpg?ixlib=rb-3.1.0&w=880&h=880&fit=max&crop=&auto=format
https://www.ebth.com/items/2745515-antique-national-sewing-machine-co-treadle-in-tiger-oak-cabinet
And another, right here at CW S&T:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/163729-unknown-national-3-4-size-angular-body
Jeremy25, I have not been able to find out who made National Sewing Machine Company's sewing machine cabinets. Must not be holding my mouth right.
There was that one comment from the quilting board user about a 'model number,' but if you look at the pictures, it's the number underneath the front slide plate, so it's the serial number of the sewing machine head, and it's only slightly lower than the serial number on yours.
*snip*
Also havent found the any with the same cabinet, some similar but details off like the drawer pulls or the iron base. I found what i believe is a model number 2972398.
*snip*
https://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage-antique-machine-enthusiasts-f22/need-help-identifying-dating-damascus-threadle-sewing-machine-t236087.html#post6439618
Anyway, in the course of surfing, I came across a modern maker of treadle cabinets:
https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/amish-furniture-treadle-sewing-machine-cabinet
It's possible that they might be able to help you out on cabinet hardware:
https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/contacts/
That is the cabinet! Now it makes sense. It’s not a flip down tray it has a hole in one side of it for it to rotate out. I have not seen that before. Wow... Thank you. I can not wait to get back and get that issue solved. I thought I was going to have to make extra support for hinges. I haven’t had time to research everything you have sent. I plan on it tonight and again thank you.
I definitely feel like I've been down this particular trail of tears before, but this website has an old postcard with an image of the National Sewing Machine Company factory in Belvidere, IL:
http://towns-and-nature.blogspot.com/2017/05/belvidere-il-national-sewing-machine.html
One of the buildings is labeled "LEATH FURNITURE SINCE EARLY 70S."
It can't mean the 1870s, because that factory wasn't built until 1900. It's likely some relatively modern repurposing of the building, but it also seems possible that back in the day, National used it for cabinet making.
I checked, and the building is still there (or was in 2012, anyway), but doesn't appear to be in use (although the building used by Ace Hardware is still active):
https://goo.gl/maps/5ydPoAdeTPDGZqyj9
Jeremy25, We must have cross-commented, and I didn't notice at the time. :-)
I can't say that I'd seen that style of center drawer, either, but then I wasn't looking for it.
So, cool. One less problem to solve, huh?
You still have some hardware challenges, like the missing front slide plate, and it looks like some elements of the top leaf spring tension assembly are missing, but it might be that those parts are interchangeable between the numerous vintage machines that have that style of tension.