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1844 - Rose Gold watch chain/bracelet

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    Posted 10 years ago

    (741 items)

    This is one of my favorite items. A Rose Gold pocket chain/bracelet with in the center an oval Amethyst. I was told this chain was made in 1844, solid 14K (marked 585, see photo 4) in England, Birmingham.
    Photo 4 shows all the marks (from left to right) what I can read is:P&LJ
    something what lookes like un underlined little Greek Omega 585
    a mark that resembles a small cant written letter v.
    Who can me tell me more about this?

    Unsolved Mystery

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    1. vetraio50 vetraio50, 10 years ago
      It might be "P & LJ"
    2. Agram.m Agram.m, 10 years ago
      Yes Vetrai050 you are right I think. Do you know what this means?
    3. Agram.m Agram.m, 10 years ago
      Hello Kevin,
      Thanks, of course you are right. Yes the language problems sometimes. And indeed I have found the marks it is of 1844. Nice "to see"you here again.
    4. vetraio50 vetraio50, 10 years ago
      Hi again from Sydney, Australia!
      I have not yet fully resolved your fob dilemma.
      But it is an interesting case of identification.

      The main clue is the underlined Omega.
      This is an import mark used by the English after 1904.
      They set up a series of different marks for silver and gold to note the town's assay office. Up until then it had been an "F".
      One of the towns used a mark of four crossed arrows.
      But only for one year. 1904 - 1905.
      The next year they began using the underlined omega.
      So it is Sheffield.

      This also means the date needs to change from 1844 to 1912, I believe.

      It's about to become antique!

      I can’t find P&LJ at this Sheffield Makers site:
      nor at this Anglo Indian site:
      I haven't found anything specifically on Ceylonese marks on the net yet.
      But all of that may be a red herring!

      Over to you!
    5. Agram.m Agram.m, 10 years ago
      Hai vetrai050,
      Again thanks for your extensive search. As you know 585 is an European mark for 14K. And the v I have found on: for 1844.
      So could it have not been that way that this watch chain was exported from England to Europe. Because I think that 585 has not been used in England for 14K. Or is this a mistake? Perhaps the underlined Omega could also be put on the bracelet in a later state? Please your vision?
    6. Agram.m Agram.m, 10 years ago
      Hai AR8Jason,

      You are right, but what means the v for 1844? Why and how. Is it possible that the Watch Chain was important to Germany. That's where it comes from?
    7. vetraio50 vetraio50, 10 years ago
      Hi again. It agree with AR8Jason. It is early 1900's.
      There are two sets of marks:
      a) the maker's mark "P&LJ"
      b) the import marks 'omega', 585 & "v". or ...... "u".

      Check out the bottom of this page on "argentinglesi": IMPORT MARKS

      There you will see the omega underlined: Sheffield since 1906.
      So we know that it was struck as a "foreign" item....not manufactured in England.
      It was assayed as 14 carat.
      It was given a date letter either 'v' or 'u'.
      We go to Sheffield marks:
      The date letter is either 1913 or 1912. ('v' or 'u')

      Two things are indicated by the underlined omega:
      a)it is not Birmingham, it is Sheffield.
      b) it is a date after 1906.

      There are two similar examples right at the bottom of the argentinglesi page
    8. Agram.m Agram.m, 10 years ago

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