Posted 11 months ago
Steptoe1
(1767 items)
Hello I’ve just rediscovered this old coin which unfortunately has a hole in it, I guess someone maybe wore it as a pendant, so old it could have been used to buy a slave, have no idea who the person is
Hi, Steptoe1. :-)
I'm definitely not a coin expert, but this looks like an 1807 Carolus IIII 8 Reales coin or a replica thereof.
Here is what a genuine, unpierced one looks like:
https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=2334
That slightly off-center hole in your coin/round looks a bit suspect, almost like it was cast rather than drilled or punched into the coin post-mint.
Here is a pierced coin/round on eBay advertised as an 1807 Carolus IIII 4 Maravedis coin:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275676382578
What I found a bit peculiar about all of these Carolus the Fourth coins/rounds is the "CAROLUS IIII" inscription.
I'm no real fan of Roman numerals, but why "IIII" instead of "IV?" I found these potential explanations:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/757867/why-did-they-use-iiii-instead-of-iv-for-william
https://newgateworld.com/blogs/style/should-it-be-iiii-or-iv-on-a-clock-dial
Bottom line: I dunno. };-)
Yep to bad about the hole
Steptoe1, I did a little more looking into this.
I found some other pierced coins/rounds with that raised rim around the piercing, and one of them is in a museum, so presumably (yeah, I know) the archaeologists verified that it's genuine.
Also, your coin has the Mexican mint mark (lower-case "o" above a upper-case "M" to the right of "REX" on the reverse side), so it seems quite possible that it's a genuine 8 reales coin.
Here is a blog post on pierced coins and why people might pierce them, as well as an example of a pierced real coin (albeit one that looks like a cob coin). Scroll down to see the pierced coin:
*snip*
The archeology collection at Minute Man National Historical Park in Concord, Massachusetts contains two pierced coins: a Spanish real and a 1766 Danish silver skilling.
*snip*
https://nmscarcheologylab.wordpress.com/2021/09/17/tale-of-a-taler-a-pierced-coin-from-the-jacob-jackson-home-site/
Here is the numista dot com listing for Carolus IV 8 reales coins. The 1807 vintage is actually the most common:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces18852.html
Thank you for bringing this to CW S&T, because I don't think I ever noticed that "IIII" Roman numeral phenomenon before. It forced me to look into it, and I learned something. :-)
Thanks Kerra great help & information about the coin,
Steptoe1, You're welcome. :-)
It was an interesting diversion.
Because of the year...these coins had holes in them so the could be sewn inside their jackets so when they rode on ships they couldn't be robbed. That's what I read online hope it helps
Thanks Tennessee, it crossed my mind that the hole had a reason
Tennessee123., Thank you for the additional insight on pierced coins.
Indeed, theft prevention was yet another reason to sew coins into/onto clothes:
*snip*
Throughout the centuries, garments have been known to have coins attached to keep the wearer’s wealth close and safe. This was particularly common among ancient nomadic cultures and in funerary garments. “Sequin” originated from the Arabic word sikka, meaning “coin,” later becoming the Venetian word zecchino. In the late 16th century, it morphed into the French word, sequin.
*snip*
https://www.threadsmagazine.com/2019/04/24/short-history-sequins
Apparently, coins might also have been sewn into clothes to hide them because they were being smuggled:
*snip*
Maritime archaeologists, members of the Rooswijk1740 project, discovered a haul of silver coins some 85 feet down on the seabed. Many of the silver coins had holes drilled so that they could be sewn into clothing. There were not only Dutch coins but also ducats from the Spanish Netherlands. But why were they secreted in clothing in this manner? The answer would seem to be that these monies would have been prohibited from being taken to the Dutch Indies.
The discovery of coins hidden in clothes and also prohibited foreign currency suggests that the crew and passengers were engaged in smuggling to the East Indies. There was a great demand for silver in the colonies and the speculation is that the passengers and mariners were trying to make a profit by selling the silver coins for higher than their face value in Batavia, the capital of the East Indies. The coins were probably sewn into the clothes of those on board to ensure that they were not detected during regular onboard inspections. Historians have long known that there was an illicit trade in silver in the Dutch company’s possessions and believe that up to 50% of the money being transported to the East Indies was smuggled.
*snip*
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/silver-coin-cache-0010470
This gal made a dress out of 6,250 U.S. one-cent coins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ploiiCA7fwc
The weight of the U.S. one-cent coin has varied since its inception; however, the weight of the coin since October 1982 has been 2.500 grams:
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/coin-and-medal-programs/coin-specifications
(The tinyurl dot com link below was converted from "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin)" because CW S&T software doesn't like links that have underscore characters butting up against open parenthesis characters)
Penny (United States coin)
https://tinyurl.com/4c9nfkte
So the least that halter-top minidress could weigh is over fourteen and a half pounds:
https://www.unitconverters.net/weight-and-mass/grams-to-pounds.htm
The creator said wearing the dress left red marks on her shoulders. Making the dress left her hands a mess for awhile. };-)