Posted 8 years ago
russ2324
(1 item)
Dear Forum Member
I'm trying to establish the above and if they are genuine or not. Thus far I've consulted an American chap who has given me his thoughts, the main issue I have is that I don't have any Makers marks on the bottom of any piece - :-(
Have no pictures of the bottom of the items because there's nothing there like an Allach SS mark :-(
They allegedly came from the house of a high ranking SS Officer at the end of WW2.
I picked them up from a 2nd hand furniture shop in Stoke and decided to have a punt as I didn't pay a tremendous amount for them.
I would say at this point that I'm not a supporter of the regime, but they do hold a fascination about them, as if they were fake then I'd expect there to be something similar out there, but thus far can find nothing.
Question is though from here I may have an issue trying to prove / disprove their status. Has anyone been thru similar and perhaps have an idea of where might be good to attempt to prove / disprove what they are, however I suspect they are genuine.
Regards
Russ H
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/Nazi%20dish/nazi_plate_2_2.jpg
if they don't have this I would think fake...jmo!
another version,an SS plate-
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=645691&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1339761961
Hi
I wouldn't as such disagree and there is nothing on the bottom, my next step would be to try and see if I can get someone to confirm the style of the porcelain. The only other thing is if they were fake, then would you not think there would be more of them out there, there appears to be nothing I can see similar (at all), but thanks for the detail supplied.
I would be questioning the pristine appearance of these cups and plates. The swastika, before it became associated with the Nazis, was originally a good luck symbol. Here's some info from Collector's Weekly on Nazi related items.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/why-would-anyone-collect-nazi/
Bonnie, I think the colours are too Nazi to be coincidence.
I didn't know that Rosenthal was involved or even commissioned as well to make things for Nazi's at that time.
bb2 - I noticed that, as well. It would be interesting if a provenance can be attached to this set.
sean - sorry not kept up with what you were alluding to - Rosenthal? When I bought the shop said that they had heard of unmarked pieces being made potentially even by Jewish firms - but kind of dismissed this, but not enough to stop me buying these.
Who recovered this porcelain? How did a secondhand furniture shop in Stoke end up with it? I would think that something from the home of a high ranking SS Officer would be in a museum somewhere instead of ending up in a second hand shop.
How odd.
I was referring to the links up above in comment number 1. , because I collect Rosenthal piece and ive never saw anything on rosenthals website about them making things for Nazi's . That all im saying.
and I also find this interesting , to see where this mystery is going end up by what company made these as well.
SEAN68 - I didn't read the link in it's entirety. You make an interesting point. I also collect Rosenthal and have never heard of that.
Efesgirl .. this is a great mystery . very very interesting one as well.
http://www.germaniainternational.com/army23.html
just giving some other ideas of whom could have produced these. its on the first half of the first page , with different companies.
thanks all - and it was fuzzy when I bought these as they were allegedly picked up at the end of the War, as mentioned from a Senior SS Officers house and initially I thought - yeah as if! But having handled them (and I'm no expert) just thought if they were fake then there wouldn't be just the one set - the cost of setting up these would be too much. Not sure if I'll ever get a definitive Y/N though.
well russ2324 don't give up so quickly .. lets all work on this together and find out , what these are all about!!
I do agree Lisa.. but it is history .. That we are learning from the past mistakes .
rucklczglass - yes the one top left - was like an ingrained coffee mark - I've never washed them - not because I think the Swastika's will disolve but more to keep them exactly as found.
sean68 - no not giving up - although know I will find it hard to prove / or disprove without a mark on the bottom, I suppose the question even though there is no mark on these has anyone else seen any of the same era with nothing on the bottom as well?
If I'm going to get to the bottom of this then it's going to be an uphill struggle, but would like to get to the end of it
can see the bottom of these ,
sometimesthe markings could be on the edge on the bottom base.
I will take some pics of the bottom of these at the weekend - and re-post
Nymphenburg ,Rosenthal, KPM ,VILLEROY&BOCH, BAUSCHER WEIN, AND im sure other companies likes where making things during that time . , as well , its hard to narrow down, to what company.
I have to agree with Lisa!!! she and my other half where saying the same thing. these do appear to be newer as well more modern day . there would be crazing and crackling on the glaze .
if these where a lot older . and these don't appear to be older.
SEAN68 and Lisa - I agree - that is just what I thought in the beginning of this thread. These simply look too pristine. I did several web searches and didn't come up with anything resembling this set. So....I know nuttin...
I have only had a few Nazi items, so I'm no expert, but they look new to me.
"The only other thing is if they were fake, then would you not think there would be more of them out there" This could be the only set someone made in their home ceramic shop.
The same can be said about them being real.
If the seller had even a slim thought that they could be real, he would not have sold them for little money. I'm thinking a few thousand at the least.
Until proven otherwise, I'm going with newer fantasy item.
Lisa what I was agreeing with you about that this was a bit weird as well.
and yes , I get what you meant... Lisa ..
I could predict the day I die, if I gave one to Jacky on her B'day ! LOL!! I think they are newer but wonder why anybody would make them ? BTW, in other cultures, the arms of the swastika went either way. Bonnie, maybe they came from your area as there seems to be a lot of "Neo" going on there ! Better quit while I'm ahead, right ? LOL !!
Good thinking Valentino97.
Valentino, I thought I was versed on the history of WWI & II, until I started looking at the volunteers for the German army/SS from other countries . Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Serbia, Turkey, (Even Ireland & India) etc. etc. . We aren't talking hundreds, but hundreds of thousands ! Netherlands was 20-25,000 ! The key to this ? To fight the communists ! Makes fascinating research. Seems that maybe Patton was right !
Your very welcome Lisa :) best sean :)
Here's a Nazi Waffen SS porcelain beet stein with the same color pattern as your coffee cups set. This one is marked.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11701495_german-nazi-waffen-ss-porcelain-beer-stein
Valentino, do you mind posting the box (I'm curious!) and also clarify why exactly the person was offended...is it because they respected or despised his persona?
Very interesting Paris. Never would have guessed that Himmler was that diversified !
efesgirl - thanks for the stein post - similar, but only similarities and such a shame there's nothing on the bottom, which would help no end. Some interesting theories though above, think I'll need to take a trip to Victoria and Albert Museum in London to see if they can shed any light.
russ2324, I would be interested to hear what the V&A says about this set. The folks there were a great help to me with a special silver brooch I have posted here.
Efesgirl - I will do - I'll see if I can get dimmensions and some more pics over the weekend - - busy time in my life at the moment.
I don't think I'll get what I'd like to hear - but be nice to know that perhaps they could be genuine, as without a Mark on the base - kind of hinders.
But rest assured - if and when I'll update.
ok this is getting interesting!!!!!!I'm makin' popcorn............
gargoylecollector - I already made the popcorn - an hour ago! It was yummy, lol!