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My Mysterious Humidor

In Pottery > European Art Pottery > Show & Tell and Tobacciana > Humidors > Show & Tell.
European Art Pottery598 of 2035Fratelli Fanciullacci Vase , Artist ? signed G.T.C.Rosenthal Pinstriped Trumpet Vase Thrift Shop Find 5 Euro ($5.49)
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    Posted 5 years ago

    EmmaPeel
    (10 items)

    I just received this item today--it's still kind of dusty and dirty! I bought it on eBay, and I'm not sure if I got a great buy or a fake! It was described as Royal Doulton, but--ready for this? It's clearly marked "DOYAL DOULTON"! I was told it's from the '20s or 30s, and it definitely looks old. The leather/rubber washer on the lid is dried-out looking, and the chrome plating on the metal part is sort of flaking, but otherwise it's in great condition; no chips, cracks, or crazing. It portrays the classic "bucolic scene", with a farmer gazing across his land, leaning on a fence,cows, sheep (?), a church spire in the distance, and a windmill, too. It looks totally, utterly Arts & Crafts. I saw another very similar one online, with a fall leaf design, but it said "Royal", and the seller didn't know anything about the "Doyal" thing. His had the same patent number, but on the bottom. I haven't contacted the seller yet, because I don't know whether to be ecstatic or disgruntled. I do really love it. I felt very extravagant paying $76.19 total for it, but I had to beat some other would-be buyers to it, so apparently THEY thought it was desirable, too. Inside the lid, "A" was scratched into the clay, and on the bottom someone scratched "WB", and it's stamped "8468". It's 6.5" tall, and 5.25" across. The patent number on the metal part is "No 194168". And no, I don't smoke. So, what do you think? I haven't had any luck looking it up online. There are a few items that come up when I search; some are listed on eBay as "Doyal", but when I check, they say "Royal"! Is it a good thing if it says "Doyal", or the opposite? Thanks!

    Mystery Solved
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    Comments

    1. Efesgirl Efesgirl, 5 years ago
      The folks here should be interested in seeing your humidor:

      https://stoproyaldoultonfakes.com/

      Here is what Royal Doulton backstamps look like:

      http://potteryhistories.com/doulton%20backstamps.html
    2. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      Efesgirl, thanks for the link. I signed up for their blog, (stop fakes), but still can't look at their site, because I don't have a password! I sent them a message. Hopefully, they'll get back to me. Naturally, I'm anxious about the whole thing. I still think it may be real, because of the metal part with the proper patent number on it. Very puzzling!
    3. vetraio50 vetraio50, 5 years ago
      There is a Facebook Doulton group ... Doulton Collectors Club that might be able to help.
    4. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I've looked at so much pottery today, trying to figure this out! I gave in and sent a message to the seller I got it from. At this point, I don't think I'll give it back, even if I can! Anyway, somewhere along the line today, I saw something about an experimental brown crystalline glaze, but I'm not sure it was Doulton's, although they did have experimental glazes in the '20s, and I was looking very closely at the brown rings around the top and bottom of my humidor. It glitters! The brown glaze has teeny tiny sparkles all in it! I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. There is another humidor like mine in Google images, but IMHO mine is decorated with richer, prettier colors. Also, the one on Google definitely says "ROYAL" on it. I'll be back with any new info.
    5. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I looked at the brown glaze with my pocket microscope, and it does have lots of bits of shiny gold stuff in it! It's pretty amazing. Also, I couldn't stand the grime on it anymore, so I wiped it off with a damp cloth. Those loose flakes of chrome plating came off. It's smooth and clean now, and the metal underneath is copper colored. A magnet will not stick to it, not even the hex nut under the lid. I'd expect it to be brass, but it looks like copper.
    6. maryh1956 maryh1956, 5 years ago
      The metal part of the humidor would have been made by a metalwork company and patented, then available to many potteries, so that doesn’t make it any more authentic. What did the seller say about the Doyal, how was it listed?
    7. maryh1956 maryh1956, 5 years ago
      Other than the obvious spelling error, the stamp is done in raised relief, whereas Doulton stamps are usually impressed into the clay or ink.

      https://fontainesauction.com/antiques/royal-doulton-tobacco-jar-lot-157-estimate-200-400/
    8. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      Mary, the seller says it is definitely a Royal Doulton, and that is how it was described in the ad. He had not noticed the "D", and I failed to notice it in his photo, although it is there. I don't intend to return it, and believe him to be innocent. You are mistaken about the stamp, though. It WAS impressed into the clay. My photo has given you a false idea, as can happen sometimes. I've looked at the marks on others, and they look exactly the same to me, other than the "D"! It appears that putting D instead of R must be a common mistake to make, because I've found several mentions of "DOYAL DOULTON" online, but as far as I can determine, they were errors, and not because someone else had one like mine.Thank you for correcting me about the metal part. What I really meant is that I wouldn't expect modern fake-mongers to go to the trouble of making the metal parts, not to mention distressing them to look old. As I said, both of the washers or gaskets, on the rim of the jar AND on the lid itself are quite old and dried-out looking, too, whether they're rubber or leather I don't know, and I hesitate to poke at them. I've seen some online that have them missing entirely. Apparently the stoproyaldoultonfakes people are working on their site, and I'll gain access after they're done. From what I can see, the fakes they are concerned about are ones where people are re-glazing figurines to make them appear to be rarer colors. I have not joined the Facebook club yet; not sure what will be involved, and it's a private group. I have the definite impression that it is authentic. I find it easier to believe that a mistake was made with the stamp, and a few (or one?) were made before it was discovered than it is to believe that someone would make such a splendid fake and then spell the name wrong, when trying very hard to deceive! I am still interested in pursuing the matter, though. Thanks to all for their efforts!
    9. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I just read everything currently available on the stopdoultonfakes website, and searched for any reference to my item. It seems that the types of fakes they are trying to ban do not involve anything like my item. I left a message .
    10. SEAN68 SEAN68, 5 years ago
      https://www.google.com/search?q=royal+doulton+194168+patent&rlz=1T4NDKB_enUS561US561&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ8LPAze_PAhWIbj4KHYlJApEQ_AUICSgC&biw=1600&bih=722
    11. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I just left a message on the Doulton Collectors Club's website, for Paul Webster Antiques.
    12. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      Thank you, SEAN68, but I'm not sure what photo you especially wished to call to my attention--? I found one like mine, except for the "D", yesterday on Google images, but somehow I can't find it now! However, if you search for "Doulton humidor 8468", the first photo is of ANOTHER one like mine, but not the one I saw there yesterday; the applied colors are different. The one I found yesterday had a photo of the stamp; this one does not. Foolishly, I didn't make note of the exact search words I used yesterday, and I can't find the other one, now! It was way down the page, and I almost missed it.
    13. maryh1956 maryh1956, 5 years ago
      You can contact Royal Doulton here:
      Historical Information,
      Royal Doulton, Nile Street, Burslem,
      Stoke on Trent,
      ST6 2AJ,
      United Kingdom.
      Email: heritage@royal-doulton.com
      Tel No:00 44 1782 292292
      Fax No: 00 44 1782 292499.
    14. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      Thank you, MaryH! That could be very helpful! I just left a question on the Facebook Doulton Collectors Club. If they can't offer the needed info, I'll try Doulton. I love Arts & Crafts style because of its comfortable, homey feel, and even though it's a humidor, it has exactly the look I like in my bedroom. I love Art Nouveau, too, but sometimes it's a bit TOO elegant. Same with Art Deco--it's relegated to the library, which is decorated in black/gray/white/and red. By the way, one of the others like mine was described as picturing a "Dutch" scene, I assume because of the windmill, but it looks too hilly to me to be the Netherlands.
    15. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I just looked it up! There were windmills in England since 1180, sited on hills (just as on my humidor!) to catch more wind. Ha! So there!
    16. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      Good news! Christopher Evans, of the Facebook Doulton Collector's Club, who is apparently a go-to authority, after seeing the photo of the maker's mark,said "It all looks fine there must have been a mistake on the impressed stamper. All the other bits look fine too including the pattern number and symbol." After seeing my other photos, he said "Lovely Jennie! A William Rowe design. It is totally fine and as we'd expect. Enjoy your find!" Jen, who runs the "stoproyaldoultonfakes" website, said "I would also agree with Chris, this is not a fake. It is pretty unique." She says she will ask friends about it. She seems to recall seeing something marked "DOYAL" before, but can't remember details. She said it may have more value, because of the boo-boo, and advised me to hang onto it. I sure will! I will leave this as a "mystery" for now, because I still have several questions I'd love to answer (though I'm not holding my breath!): is there a name, or other info for the unusual brown glittery glaze? Can it be dated any closer than "'20s or '30s"? Any idea who "WB" or "A" are, who initialed it? (I've seen 2 others of this design, and I think "WB" was the best at decorating them!) And, of course, how in the heck did some-one make the "DOYAL" stamp? (I'd say he missed his tea that day!) I may still contact Doulton, as Mary H suggested. Thanks to all!
    17. EmmaPeel, 5 years ago
      I'm marking this mystery as solved, although as I said in the previous post, I'd love to have more info, to answer my remaining questions, or reports of other pieces that say "DOYAL"! Thanks again, to those who helped me with contact info!
    18. laurenDoyal, 3 years ago
      I also have a doyal Doulton

      can i add a photo here?

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