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The Mouse that Roared

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Military and Wartime4297 of 6948Battlefield Max Cohn jacket  with chaplain crossButton dug in Pulaski Co, KY
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    Posted 8 years ago

    (197 items)

    This is a little known story. In 1967, England decided that they would dump the islands of Nevis, St. Kitts (Christopher) & Anguilla as they weren't bringing in any duty for the Crown. St. Kitts was to be the capitol! Anguilla was smart enough to realize that St. Kitts, Under Bradshaw, were thieves & no tax revenue would be shared. So they revolted AGAINST INDEPENDENCE! You can google up all this, but the Anguillan's went into open revolt. They put old cars to block the runway & the Crown had to send in troops to quell the rebellion. Meanwhile, The St. Kittian police & other foreign forces had been expelled. As there was much backing for Anguilla in St. Kitts, an armed force from Anguilla was sent by boat(s) to take control of St. Kitts but met with no active support & retired. Meanwhile Anguilla had been occupied by U.K. marines & paratroopers but they didn't surrender. The Brit. troops spent their time swimming, snorkeling etc. but never took the island. The people of Anguilla stood firm & finally won their rightful place, back under the Crown! They won their DEPENDENCE! I'm sure Nevis now wishes they had joined the revolt against independence. The corruption in St. Kitts makes sure nothing leaves their corrupt hands.
    This is a rare Mauser 8 m/m rifle used in Anguilla's revolt. I cleaned it some yrs. ago and found the "boat-tail" bullet stuck in the chamber throat & can't explain it as it should have been a fixed cartridge & the loose bullet makes no sense. Anguilla finally completely won their hard fought DEPENDENCE in 1980.

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    1. SEAN68 SEAN68, 8 years ago
      very very very beautiful piece Blunderbuss!!!
    2. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      Sean, it's true & great, but still humour! I know people in Anguilla & we laugh about it, but it was serious back then.
    3. SEAN68 SEAN68, 8 years ago
      I would say so Blunderbuss that it was then, but I would agree laughing about it now LOL!!!!, VERY INTERESTING POST:)
    4. walksoftly walksoftly, 8 years ago
      Thanks for the history lesson.
      I liked the part regarding the UK marines & paratroopers. "The Brit. troops spent their time swimming, snorkeling etc." It must have been difficult for them.
    5. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 8 years ago
      As to the bullet in the chamber throat, I’d guess the case mouth was not crimped into the bullet cannelure properly and extended a bit, or that it was a dud round with a live primer that had just enough power to push it far enough into the chamber to stick. After that, pulling back the bolt would separate the bullet from the case.

      There was (and is) a lot of surplus 8mm ammo out there that was stored under poor conditions, and some of it of questionable manufacture. I’ve had to knock out a couple of bullets from the chamber when shooting surplus. Always a good idea to check the chamber and bore for obstructions whenever you hear a “pop” instead of a “bang”!
    6. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      Chrisnp, you are definitely right about the checking especially reloads of unknown origin. This bullet just kind of plunked right out & wasn't stuck tight. Sure had, & still has, me stumped. Mics 8.1 m/m.
    7. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 8 years ago
      8.1 mics out about I recall, an unfired 8mm bullet should be 8.2 or so. Barrel diameter being 7.92, obviously it could stick in the chamber, as seen. It might have rattled loose over the years since being separated from the case. I don’t see any bite marks on it from the lands and grooves of the barrel.

      One time I accidentally stored a box of .38 reloads in a non-weather proofed shed for a couple cold, damp winters. After I found them I went out with friends, plinking with my old No. 2 Enfield revolver. Some were complete duds, but some sort of lofted out the barrel so slow you could see them in flight, falling to the ground about three feet in front of me. I’ve had weird things happen with very old French and Austrian surplus ammo, and I’ve always imagined the stuff might have spent decades in some cold/hot/damp/humid place where even a military factory crimp didn’t save it.
    8. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      Ah, another reloader! You might be right about it getting shaken loose over the years but even if it did stick in the chamber, it would not necessarily have rifling marks as rifling doesn't start at the end of the chamber. As you well know, there is a taper into the rifling . Also, it would have to stick really well to pull a bullet with a crimping grove out of the case & I've never seen nor heard of that happening. If the Brits had "spiked" the gun, they would have driven it in & certainly not returned it. I think this will just remain a mystery. I can't even figure out how a totally unmarred bullet would be out of the case without an inertia bullet puller.
    9. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 8 years ago
      Yep, when you shoot stuff like .577 Martini Henry, .50-70 US Gov’t, etc. etc., you’ve got to reload or go broke! Combining a love of history and of shooting can be expensive. I even try to match the dynamics of the original loads, like paper patching my Martini rounds. It’s time consuming stuff.

      Anyway, please bear with me on my theory – and I know it's only a theory: An old surplus round, weakened by the passage of time in poor conditions – perhaps just the primer feebly ignites - just might still have the power to push the bullet out of its crimped in position. It lodges in the chamber and goes no father. Eventually it gets knocked out of its stuck position over time and falls out. Just sayin.
    10. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      Chrisnp, you actually do the paper wrap on those old bullets? We need to talk but it's bedtime here. Falling asleep, but wondering where you get .50-70 cases as I'm sure it's not from fire-forming .45-70 cases? You can buy those cases? Remember that I lived outside of the States for over 40 yrs.. If I get a permit for reloading for the dutch, French & Anguillian police, I have some dies & bullet molds I don't need & can sent you some way. Curious as to how you lube & wrap those old bullets.
    11. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 8 years ago
      I bought a whole bunch of 50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms several years ago and have been reloading them ever since. Dixie Gun Works makes them too.

      Learning to paper patch bullets is like learning to roll your own cigarettes; it takes a bit of practice to get the knack. I learned from a book called “The Paper Jacket” by Paul Matthews. Describing the process here would be a pretty long post.
    12. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      Chrisnp, been trying to find time to get back to you. I assume the bullets have lube groves & then you roll the paper around? These are crimped in cases? What exactly was the purpose of the paper?
      I've shot orig. Sharps a lot, making the nitrated paper cartridges that tie on the back of bullet but that's a different thing of course.
    13. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 8 years ago
      First, an apology to everyone else for getting off topic. Blunder, I have a Hotmail account using the same name I use here if you’d like to continue the discussion after this.

      Paper patches act as a barrier between the rifling of the barrel and the bullet, thus eliminating the leading you get in your barrel with soft lead cast bullets. Traditionally cast bullets for paper jacketed rounds have no lube grooves (although you can paper patch a grooved bullet). You apply the lube to the paper after the bullet is patched. It’s the paper that takes the rifling and creates a gas seal between the barrel and the straight sided bullet. Of course that also means you can use harder alloys with the paper patched bullets. Supposedly paper patched bullets can handle a tighter rifling twist and higher velocities than a naked grooved bullet. I haven’t personally tested that statement.

      I don’t crimp my bullets. Friction holds them in place just fine – but then I’m target shooting, not running around a battlefield with them. I suppose you could crimp them to no ill effect, but I know of no data saying the original rounds were crimped. I use filler and wad so there is no empty space beneath the bullet, which is the same as with the original round.
    14. Militarist Militarist, 8 years ago
      I remember seeing some of the countermarked coins that came out about that time. I am fairly sure that the coins never actually circulated.
    15. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 8 years ago
      I've never heard of "countermarked" coins from the struggle for dependence. Interesting that I've never heard of them. Any reference sites you know of?
    16. Militarist Militarist, 8 years ago
      The coins are listed in the Unusual World Coins Catalog by Krause Publications. They were authorized by the Anguilla Island council and were privately produced in San Francisco. I am sure these coins were planed to be fund raisers and never actually made it to the island during the time of the revolt.

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