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Military and Wartime2265 of 4145Sun Yat-sen-Kuomintang (KMT) Pre-Revolution Chinese 24K  Gold Flag Pin/Brooch (with opal and jade)WWII Belgian Chaplain & French Chaplain congratulating each other on being liberated from Nazi POW Camp by U.S. Army, 1945
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Posted 2 years ago

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dhumphrey12
(21 items)

This sword was passed on to me, and would like help to identifying
it I have been told it could be American or German. I cannot find any marks. Any help will be appreciated
Thank You

Unsolved Mystery

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Comments

  1. scottvez scottvez, 2 years ago
    It looks like a M1850 foot officers sword. Usually these come with a leather scabbard.

    Check at the blade end near the hilt area (grip)-- that is where they are usually marked.

    scott
  2. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    I agree that it appears to be a US Model 1850 Foot officer's word, and it's not unusual if there is no maker mark. In the Civil War era, many of these words were manufactured in Europe - mainly Germany - and imported into the United States. Many had the symbol of the manufacturer or name of the importer, others did not. Although an unmarked blade is less interesting to many collectors, it's still a desireable sword.

    The Model 1850 foot officer's sword was a direct copy of the French Foot Officer's sword then in use, so it could also be a French 1845 pattern Infantry Officer's Sword - But I think it's more likely American. These were used from 1850, all through the Civil War, and up until about 1872.
  3. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 2 years ago
    Don't let the kids play with it! Get an expert to look at it & don't sell it to him when he says it is worth $100. The pics aren't very clear, but it appears to be an unstopped fuller/blood gutter at the grip end & that is a strong sign of being Confederate. Also the rose pattern in the guard is common among C.S. swords. If the handguard shows some roughness in the casting. The wire wrapping the grip on C.S. is often single iron or brass. The Confederates had a severe shortage of cured leather & were reduced to using cotton for harnesses so the iron scabbard is not an oddity at all.
    I sold 1 with your pattern that was made by Haiman & Bro. of Columbus, GA. Yours also could be a Kraft, Goldschmidt, & Kraft of Columbia, SC or a number of others.
    U.S. made swords were almost (if not always) marked. Most foreign made swords did not adapt the American pattern where the C.S. did.
    Don't get swindled, please.
  4. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 2 years ago
    I've done a little more looking around & that unstopped fuller still tells me, C.S. & all U.S. 1850's had leather scabbards so I still suspect Confederate which could put the value in the $K's. Can you get documentation on it's history since Confederate swords etc. are often faked.
  5. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    I hope you are right, blunderbuss, because my Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword has the exact same fuller pattern, identical rose pattern, and is unmarked. I also have unmarked examples of a model 1840 Cavalry Saber and an 1840 Light Artillery Saber.
  6. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    Also, the model 1850 foot officer sword was a copy of the French period sword of the same type, and the first US Federal contracts for these swords in this pattern went to Schnitzler & Kirschbaum of Solinen. I have also seen this pattern sword made by Paul Luneschloss. Although there were plenty on non-regulation swords imported during the war, there were plenty of American pattern swords coming in too.
  7. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    Oh, and dhumphrey, one thing I fully agree with blunderbuss on is that that you should not part with this sword too quickly or cheaply. This sword has value.
  8. dhumphrey12 dhumphrey12, 2 years ago
    Wow, Ton of information. THANKS ALL!!! This is why I come here. I did have a few guys look at it
    and they tried to offer me $200.00. Who do you trust anymore? Does anyone have a guess of its value. I think in the end it will wind up over my fireplace, if it was a CS sword what an honor to have such a treasure.
  9. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    Good morning - I was doing my morning browse of e-Bay with my morning coffee, and found this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Civil-War-Model-1850-Foot-Officers-Sword-with-Steel-Scabbard-/110919379331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d34f6983

    As you can see, it has the unstopped fuller, rose pattern and steel scabbard that yours has. This one is marked Klingenthal (a French manufacturer) on the spine - another place to look for the maker's mark. Klingenthal did not export swords to Union dealers, so the sword on eBay may have been intended for French use as the Model 1845, and I would have listed it as such. Since yours is unmarked, I'm still betting yours was intended for the American market.

    I notice the seller isn't getting any bids on the sword, but I'm thinking it's because of the French manufacture and the fact that he has a feedback score of "2".
  10. Chrisnp Chrisnp, 2 years ago
    er, I meant Union forces, not Union dealers.

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