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Enormous Meiping Vase (New Photos)

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Chinese Antiques70 of 408CALLIGRAPHY BRUSH HOLDERChinese Lamp / Shade ??
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Posted 7 months ago

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Stillwater
(158 items)

Added new photos. Now I'm thinking it may in fact be Chinese, after hearing from the people on another forum. Found similar wares from the Guangxu period, late Qing, with similar decor and glaze. Nothing this enormous though. Its 27" tall and could fit a basketball at the widest point. 30 pounds.

Also, it came from the estate of a man who was of the mayor of a wealthy city, from 1970-1986, and he was an art dealer himself.

Posted to forums on Chinese antique porcelain and got positive responses regarding authenticity. Still investigating it

Unsolved Mystery

Help us close this case. Add your knowledge below.

Comments

  1. valentino97 valentino97, 7 months ago
    Best of luck tomorrow. This is gorgeous. Let us know if you get it.
  2. mikelv85 mikelv85, 7 months ago
    Well it's definitely Chinese Still, and awesome !! ..... The dragons have five toes. Japanese dragons only have three. This type of vase with a solid color and incised decoration I believe is called "Anhua"

    This is from Gotheborg's site:

    An hua or "hidden decoration":

    An hua means "hidden" decoration. It is un-colored and only seen as impressions under a clear glaze or through transmitted light. The decoration could be produced either by carving, incising or impressing the design into the porcelain before glazing and firing. The decoration was first seen as the dominating decoration on Song (960-1279) dynasty Ding and Xing wares and continued on Qingbai wares, under a slightly bluish glaze.
    Hidden decoration was very popular in the early Ming period, at least in part because of Yongle's taste for plain white wares. Several reason's have been proposed to explain Yongle's preference for white wares, which represented quite a change from the taste for brightly colored underglaze blue and copper-red wares of the late 14th century. Since white is the color of filial piety and mourning, one of them is that Yongle's choice was partially intended to mitigate the circumstances under which he came to rule, which also caused him to spend the first four years of his reign in mourning.
    Hidden end carefully engraved thin lines or decorations was also a key feature in borders on "high transitional" pieces around the 1640's. The technique was revived as in cut and impressed rim decorations in the Qing Dynasty during the first half of the 18th century after which it develops into a colored surface-covering version called "graviata".
  3. AmberRose AmberRose, 7 months ago
    So exciting! Please let us know if you get it. Probably in line right now.
  4. DrFluffy DrFluffy, 7 months ago
    I love the color...
  5. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    It actually may in fact be Chinese instead of and English copy, after getting some more opinions and finding similar wares from the period. And the particular estate that it came from was a man who really knew his stuff, an art dealer married to a mayor of a wealthy, artsy city. Burmantofts was similar, but no Asian motifs like this, and nothing similar in form. And the high-quality Chinese wooden base makes me think its not English too.

    Sorry to bother you all again with an email, I'm just really focused on identifying this piece
  6. Vintagefran Vintagefran, 7 months ago
    Very nice Stillwater, i hope you identify it.
  7. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    Thanks Fran, I'm still plugging away at it
  8. AmberRose AmberRose, 7 months ago
    Oooohhhh, so cool. Did you empty it? What's the plan? Did you get anything else at the sale? Keep updating!!!
  9. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    Yeah I emptied it all out, sent photos to our Bonham's rep to see if she could help. I've stopped cranking on it because if it IS an authentic Guangxu palace vase, I need to get the restoration people to take over. I don't want to damage it. Ahhh if I could only see the base for marks, just one peep!

    Guangxu period was 1875-1908, and from looking at it under LED, UV, and magnification, it DOES appear that it could be that old. This guy was a wealthy, high-profile art dealer too... That's the only reason I have hope it could be authentic
  10. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 7 months ago
    Call me skeptical but how likely is it that this vase, which was a lamp? would be a valuable Imperial palace vase? The quality is not there.
    It is heavy pottery, molded, incised, in a traditional Chinese motif of the Buddhist floating dragon in the sky above water. The image is incomplete as there should be two dragons... Probably was a pair of lamps made for export, mid- 20th century or later. Yellow enamel was not a background color used in China during the Imperial reigns.
  11. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    I am skeptical too, but I did find some similar pieces online, Guangxu period, so they did use yellow then. Mine has two dragons as well, the other is just not pictured. If it had not been for the provenance, I wouldn't be think it could be genuine. High-profile art dealer for 40 years, married to the mayor of the wealthiest city in Arizona. Some very valueable things were in that home.

    Some of the quality on these genuine ones is lower than the one I have

    https://www.antiquehelper.com/item/341021

    This one has identical decor:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/17/1187784/-Qing-Dynasty-Chinese-Art-Photo-Diary#

    http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/chinese-works-of-art-n08974/lot.244.lotnum.html

    http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-yellow-glazed-dragon-bowl-guangxu-underglaze-blue-5564184-details.aspx

    http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/chinese-yellow-glazed-dragon-bowl-81-c-c0ee4874b2
  12. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    On the last photo you can see the claw of the 2nd dragon at the bottom
  13. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 7 months ago
    I hope it is what you wish it is but I have my doubts, no matter who owned it and how knowledgeable and experienced he was.
    Doing an internet search has as many pitfalls, as you have to thrust the information's accuracy that is posted there. I can't tell you how many times I come across complete fabrications regarding Chinese and Japanese antiques on the internet.
    An antique dealer of long standing would know a lot of information about many items but would not be an expert in any particular field. Especially Asian items during the earlier part of the 20th century.
    It is with the advent of the internet and reliable information from Museums, collectors and cosmopolitan dealers that we have become more sophisticated in this area.
    Also, many reference books have been published since the 1970s regarding many aspects of Chinese and Japanese decorative antiques and vintage exports.
  14. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    Well, I posted it on a forum dedicated to Chinese antique ceramics, guys who really know their stuff, and they're thinking that its what I think it is, Guangxu, late Qing.

    "The tail of the dragon really looks as if it was late Qing dynasty."

    "from what I can see, the dragon looks like the old style of decoration, the way the five claws are done are from earlier periods"

    "you just might have something valuable here"
  15. mikelv85 mikelv85, 7 months ago
    Hi Still... I see you've asked Peter about your vase and the censor. Sorry that it wasn't real. I think it's nice anyway. So how is the dismantling on the lamp going? Maybe use a good penetrating oil like "liquid wrench" and let it sit a day or two. Sounds like it's really seized up. I've asked him about my little rice grain tea cup's mark but he never answered me. I showed him the celadon wine bottle and all he said was that's not collectable it's modern. I think I'm getting the cold shoulder, although I don't know why. I also asked him what he thought of my Qianlong bowl and no answer there either. Guess I most have offended him in some way. I just valued his opinion and wanted him to see it. Oh well guess I won't be posting there for a while. I can always go back to the Asian art forums. It just takes longer to get a reply. -Mike-
  16. Stillwater Stillwater, 7 months ago
    Well I knew the censer wasn't old when I bought it, it was just nicely decorated and I thought I could make a few bucks on it.

    The large vase however, they seem to be getting excited over. Peter said it looked like an authentic late Qing piece from the form of the dragon's claw and tail.

    My guess would be that he's probably not responding because knowledge is *literally* valuable, it takes a lifetime to acquire and its worth money. Some people don't like to give away too much of it. Maybe you should try only posting there sporadically? He's basically giving out free appraisals after all. My advice with Peter, try not to ask too much from him.

    I saw your crackled celadon vase and I thought it was really neat, even if its not worth a lot, it would be something I would put in my home. The dark crazing gives it a neat decor, plus its old and dirty and signed, just the way I like.
  17. mikelv85 mikelv85, 7 months ago
    Thanks, Yes that is a nice piece, but the one I was talking about was the round celadon wine bottle that had rice wine in it. I didn't know at the time it was modern, but that's why I asked him. The fangge crackle vase with the crude Chengua mark is actually late Qing/Early Republic 1890-1920. Old just not real old...lol. After all it is a forum and there are no stipulations or monetary compensations unlike Gotheborg where you have to pay to ask his advice. It's nice to have things that are worth money,but it's not the reason I collect. It's the thrill of the hunt and the knowledge you gain in the process.
  18. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 7 months ago
    As I am still following this thread and got two more emails today...I just had to share my thoughts.
    Those links to similar looking yellow enamel vessels/container/bowls are ALL fine "porcelain", they were probably crafted for the IMPERIAL household.
    Your lamp is earthenware, the cheapest type of ceramic these is, it is a lamp, so has a damaged base, it is extremely heavy - not an easily sold piece unless extremely valuable.
    I could agree with the dating of 1900-08, but it was made for the export or tourist trade, not for the Imperial household. If you can afford the best, why would the last Chinese Emperor's family accept or use such a piece? After all, they were not in the midst of redecorating, they owned huge storage facilities with excellent ceramic wares from many centuries, and all the best master craftsmen in the country of the time were at their disposal.
    Then this vase has a couple of issues, one spot is missing it's glaze and enamel, and the top rim is cracked. This is a molded pottery piece, with applied monochrome enamel and glaze that has pooled around the relief designs of the motif. I wish you would pay as much attention to what you DON'T want to hear, instead of concentrating on what suits your purpose. It's hard, but necessary.
    As far as going on other site's message boards to ask for their opinion such as Gotheborg, and asianart (done that) can be frustrating. Often the people who really know don't respond or don't give you enough information. This is how collectors are born... we buy pieces thinking that we will hit the jackpot, it rarely happens, and we pay for our tuition or antique education as we assemble pieces we like but are not worth selling right now.
  19. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Rule of thumb in antique collection: story is story, items speak for themselves.

    Here is my 2 cents:
    1, It's too large to be true.

    2, As mentioned by other users, it's meant to be called "an-hua" or more precisely "an-ke", means hidden-carving. Look at yours, I could see the motif clearly meters away, isn't this a warning sign?

    No offense at all
  20. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    How can you say what it was meant to be?
    Yes, you can see the design clearly, so doesn't that mean it wasn't supposed to be anhua ware?
  21. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    stillwater, you can compare your with those you referred by links. To my eyes, your is way more easier to see the motif.

    for example, this can't been seen clearly.
    http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz139/Ojibwa/Museums/PAM%20Chinese%20Art/DSCN6116.jpg

    and this is the same:
    http://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/doyle/80/429480/H0061-L50847018.jpg

    Wonder why? Because if you look closely, your dragon is above the porcelain surface, called cameo engraving, while others are diaglyph, the sunken engraving. The cameo type would catch a lot enamel when it's baked in kiln and result in darker color and easier to be spotted from distance.

    Like to hear your input.
  22. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here, that its a reproduction? I noticed early on that the pieces online are incised, which leads back to my other point: Who says this piece is anhua ware?... Its clearly not incised like anhua. Is there another type of ware that is cameo-engraved?

    In the back of my mind, I just can't believe that it could be real. On the other hand though, I sent photos to some VERY knowledgeable people, and they said that it appeared to be genuine late Qing dynasty. I don't know what to believe. I need to get the base off to see the bottom, but its stuck
  23. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    I guess the easiest way to go is to search for museum items from the same period with the same techniques. I can't rule out the existence of this kind has been made in Qing dynasty. It would be great if the VERY knowledgeable people could point you to the benchmark piece in museums.
  24. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    You're probably right, check museum catalogs. I have a friend at Bonham's, I may drive it up to her and see what she thinks. I guess the key is to find a genuine piece with the same technique.

    Something that bothers me is that the inside of the piece is in the same yellow glaze. Now, the other authentic pieces I've seen online had a celadon or white glaze on the inside, different color than the outside. Do you think that is a red flag?
  25. AmberRose AmberRose, 6 months ago
    The mystery continues...following with baited breath!
  26. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    No Stillwater, that's fine and quite normal. Celadon or white glaze were made in high temperature kiln and yellow glaze was made in low temperature kiln. The first step in make this kind of ware is forging the porcelain body along with Celadon glaze under high temperature. The yellow glaze was laid in the second step under low temperature. It's the maker's decision to do both side or single side.
  27. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    IT'S NOT PORCELAIN! LOOK AT IT! YOU CAN SEE THE GRAINY SURFACE THROUGH THE YELLOW FINISH.
    Why doesn't anybody here appreciate the HUGE difference between Chinese PORCELAIN and Chinese EARTHENWARE????
    The fact it may have been made in late Qing dynasty is not that important, if it was not a valuable item to begin with, made for a commercial purpose.
    All those examples types you are referring to have a PORCELAIN body!
    While I was researching something else yesterday, I came across a Qing earthenware producer called SHIWAN. They made a lot of pottery pieces with interesting enamels. They also produced 'mud men' if anyone knows this term for small Chinese pottery figurines finished with green, yellow, blue and white enamels, dating 1890-1910.
    I think Shiwan is a most likely description of this piece. But what do I know....
  28. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Hi idcloisonne, I don't quite understand your idea. What's the difference you mentioned to distinguish porcelain and earthenware? A Grainy surface? I don't thinks so. There is a spot on this item not covered by glaze, which allow you to exam the porcelain body material. You could find it at the center of the second pic.
  29. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    Here is a link to a similar lamp base from this one:
    http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/17550659_chinese-glazed-shiwan-censer

    Shrine, in your house I'm sure you have porcelain/ceramic pieces and earthenware/pottery pieces, the main difference is the weight, color and the texture. Porcelain can be very thin, lightweight, with a very smooth white surface with no spots or rougher areas. Look at the base of the piece to confirm this.
    A pottery item on the other hand is heavy for it's size, grainy, has a rough surface if it is not glazed or polished, is not white, with a base that is usually brown or grayish and cruder.
    I will return with some links. For a ceramic collector, this is one of the most basic type of knowledge you must acquire, especially with Asian pieces. Because if you know what it is made off, it will help you identify it and value it.
  30. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Hi idcloisonne, I've pointed you to the uncover part on this vase, no need to look at the base. It's white and fine. I don't agree to judge a material in the body by its shape, not accurate nor necessary. In this case, weight and thickness are not options, the white color and fine texture could only lead to porcelain. Spots and rougher area could present on porcelain as well due to the defect in kaolinite preparation or body trimming. It's called rough-china and fine-china today.
  31. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    Shrine, I don't know what you are talking about, can't see the base on this yellow meiping vase... Who mentioned shape? We are trying to resolve if this piece is valuable: weight , thickness, defects and finish do matter.

    Still, YOU may not have said it was porcelain but the five links you provided as examples are ALL porcelain pieces. The 'anhua' style of decoration is meant for a fine porcelain design, what is called 'eggshell' porcelain that is so thin you can see through it. So to see the anhua motifs you would have to use a strong light.
  32. Vintagefran Vintagefran, 6 months ago
    Amberose.I'm with you, following this one with bated breath. Interesting debate. I'm a complete novice so no nothing:)
  33. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    But this piece isn't anhua, that was just the first lead I got, and I've since found out that its not what it is. So lets get anhua out of the way

    There's a man on a forum with very detailed, intricate knowledge of antique Chinese ceramics, and everything that he has had me check, to authenticate it as late Qing, has checked out.

    " you might be able to see on or more seams inside. Such vases would have been in pieces, on the wheel, which then were fit together. If it were thrown in one go, then this would mean it was made later. Usually, with much older (17th century and earlier) pieces the seams were often also visible on the outside, but in the late Qing period the seam was smoothed down, so it may be less obvious."

    - I did find a seam, it was smoothed down just like he said, and I can see it down inside with a flashlight. He's also told me:

    "The tail of the dragon really looks as if it was late Qing dynasty."

    "from what I can see, the dragon looks like the old style of decoration, the way the five claws are done are from earlier periods"

    " from the looks of the top and top inside, your vase appears to be older"

    "you just might have something valuable here"

    (These are from two different people mind you, two different opinions)

    - I checked other posts of his on other threads, this guy is a human encyclopedia of antique Chinese ceramics. The entire forum is dedicated to it, and he's the admin.

    So what are your thoughts idcloisonne?
  34. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Ok, idcloisonne, let me show you the uncovered body highlighted in the following pic. When I said "the base", I actually referred to the foot rim, where you may be able to see the body material, and know in turn the thickness of the body. It's not feasible in this case, neither the weight. Thus I am trying my best to GUESS the MEIPING vase. To be honest, it's not the traditional Qing dynasty Meiping shape to me.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/shrine79/7Kaf06p24RHC1-MudCn5sA_zps139090c2.jpg
  35. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater, interesting comments you quoted, let's exam them.

    "Seam" first. Alright, even modern casting technique can't do this shape in one go with one piece of mold and there always has to be "seams" somewhere. In this case, you don't even have to look inside, I've spotted on the outer side. check the pic I highlighted. This raised two questions in my head.

    1, Is this an old one crafted by hand? If so, why did the maker forget to trim the seam outside?

    2, Is this an mould cast porcelain? If so, the seam is hard to trim since the cast body has already hardened when it's taken out from the mould.

    If the 2nd case applies, look at the inside, looking for any sunken area associated with the raised motif on the outer side. If there is, it's mould cast. If not, look at the inner side bottom, looking for a sunken ring associated with outer foot rim. If there is, a mould cast again.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/shrine79/qKVj7xAP-qP3RuA9i5xoJg_zpsdec1c2c5.jpg
  36. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    VintageFran, glad we are entertaining at least, I have been laughing to myself, so, not taking this too seriously either. A good discussion can be informative for all, myself included.
  37. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    Still,
    This discussion about seams has reminded of a very large and heavy molded Chinese vase I once owned and sold about 4 years ago. It was PORCELAIN, with a very white and smooth texture, the exterior had relief lotus motifs and finished in a dark green enamel, it was signed with a blue dynasty mark.
    My vase was also molded horizontally in 2 pieces, but not as big as yours, it looked like to two gigantic wine cups fitted together.
    It would make sense that your heavy lamp/vase would have been made in several parts and then assembled before glazing and firing again in the kiln.
    About the similarity of motifs in Chinese decorative items, this was a Chinese traditional approach that makes it very difficult to date pieces for collectors. You can have the exact same decoration within a century of production.
    Another factor you may not be aware of is that these 'palace size' ceramic vases, and other kinds of decoration such as cloisonne jars, censers and figures, that were produced with HUGE proportions were not meant for the Imperial household, rather made for export to impress the Westerner, which they did. This happened early 20th century, 1900-1920.
    I don't think the low relief dragons and clouds were molded on both sides, the earthenware is too thick for that.
  38. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    shrine,
    .... the 'uncovered' body (would be the unfinished area).... When I said "the base", 'I actually referred to the foot rim', where you may be able to see the body material, and know in turn the thickness of the body (yes, we can't see a lot). It's not feasible in this case, neither the weight (weight is provided by Still, 60 pounds). Thus I am trying my best to GUESS.....(it's still a guess).
    We are all guessing based on the few available images, that's all we have to work with, making this identification very difficult. Some guesses are more informed than others by more experienced Asian collectors/dealers/buyers. Opinions in any case should be careful and cautious, making sure you use the right English terms.
    To my eye the unfinished oval area, is not white and is not smooth. I will try and post a few links of a few of my pieces to illustrate what I mean by porcelain versus earthenware vases.
  39. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    oops that was 30 pounds, and 27 inches high.
  40. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    idcloisonne, the 60 pounds includes the timber base and lamp accessories, don't take it seriously.

    Illustration is always the best way to communicate. I'll try to incorporate it into my post.
  41. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    oops that was 30 pounds, a good lesson to myself, always proof read and verify...
  42. Vintagefran Vintagefran, 6 months ago
    Idcloisonne, entertaining and informative, its a great post. Learning a bit about porcelain & earthenware:)
  43. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    shrine,
    "oops that was 30 pounds, a good lesson to myself, always proof read and verify..."
    Are you kidding? You are obviously using a translating tool from your native tongue to English. How can you possibly correct and advise other people?
    TIMBERRRRR...... is what lumberjacks yell when they are cutting down a tree in the forest.
    WOOD is the word you are looking for: a Chinese carved wood stand base, not a 'timber base'. ;)) LOL
    Nobody is perfect, at least I admit it when I'm wrong.
  44. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    idcloisonne, obviously the translation tools I am using is my own brain. I admit wood, wooden and timber are confusing to me and I use them interchangeably. Thank you for correcting my words.

  45. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    idcloisonne, you mentioned the 'uncovered' body would be the unfinished area....I don't know what do you mean with 'finish'. To me it's simply a flaw due to excessive thickness of the glaze liquid. The surface tension caused the glaze to shrink and left some area uncovered.
  46. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    30 pounds was just a guess, comparing it to a 25 lb dumbbell now, its probably more like 18-20 lbs. And that's with the wooden base and a hollow brass rod. I took the harp and finial off.

    Shrine - I looked inside and it is smooth, no sunken areas corresponding to the outside decoration. I also did not see a sunken ring around the foot. Its hard to see down there, but it looks pretty flat. If you look a it closely, you can see that it was incised by hand with a tool, so the designs themselves are definitely not moulded.
    The seam is actually easy to see in the photos because the flash highlights contrast in the color, but its nearly invisible in person. It's been trimmed or smoothed down pretty well.

    idcloisonne - I never in my wildest dreams thought it was for the Imperial household, I was just hoping that it wasn't a 1970's piece of hippie crap. If you're thinking 1900-1920, that's basically the date I was expecting/hoping for. Late Qing, like the guy on the other forum said, right?

    About impressing the Westerners, that's a good point. I've definitely seen a million big, crappy, moulded porcelain things out there, I know exactly what you're talking about, but I haven't seen similar to this before, and I do a lot of Google Image searches on Chinese porcelain.

    I've added a photo of the glaze skip. Its been exposed to air and moisture for a while and could be darker from that, but I'd say it looks pretty white, not like the brown earthenware I'm familiar with. There is also a place on the rim where the glaze was recently worn off slightly when I was fiddling with the base, and it looks absolutely BONE white.

    Okay, now I'm looking at it under magnification all over, I'm seeing tiny areas where the glaze has chipped off or whatever, and its as pure white as white can get.

    I've seen that shiwan earthenware stuff before, and I was thinking that this piece was earthenware, but after seeing how white this is just now, I don't know... What do you think? How could it be so white but look so grainy?
  47. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater, it's good, at least it's not a modern cheap copy, but I haven't rule out sophisticated repro. The next thing bothering me is the shape. Here is a Ming dynasty Yellow glaze Meiping, I don't know is it real, but it has the right shape.

    http://www.mgold.cn/gwpic/hongzhijiiyouhuanglongfengmeiping-1.jpg
  48. AmberRose AmberRose, 6 months ago
    I am really enjoying (and learning!) from this friendly debate. It is hard here in the states to get a good idea of quality of Asian treasures as we are flooded with so much junk (which can be pretty).
  49. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    Yeah its not technically, exactly meiping shape, that was just about the closest way to describe its form. I don't remember finding anything exactly like it online, so I don't know what to tell you. I think you made a mistake copy/pasting that link, I just get a blank page with !! !! !! !! Ö÷»ú¿Õ¼äµ½ÆÚ. Can you try posting it again? I'd really like to see it

    Yeah Amber, you're right, I wish there wasn't such a flood of Asian junk in the states, but every once in a while you do hit the jackpot, like that Yabu Meizan bowl I found for 10 bucks. Its worth 7-8 grand, more if it didn't have a tiny chip on the rim. That's what keeps me sifting through the piles of Asian junk, because there ARE some good Japanese/Chinese ceramics to be found
  50. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    Still,
    Yes, that would be in the same period as what your other site's commenter said, late Qing. I don't know why your vase is so spotty, it's possible the mustard yellow enamel color has oxidized and become darker, blotchy or uneven over the years if it does have a porcelain base. Otherwise, that is my main reason to think it's earthenware.
    Here is the green Chinese porcelain vase I was talking about, the photo was taken in daylight. This is important because the images of your yellow vase seem to have been taken with a flash and I find that can really distort colors and textures.
    I find that when I buy online with images taken with a flash, the piece looks entirely different when I get it, and when I sell something, a flash makes the image not at all like the real thing. I try to stick with shady daylight and make sure I check the lighting used when I buy.

    [IMG]http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b532/lisa12345672/CWuploads/CWchinaporcelainvase-Copy_zpsf6fdff19.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b532/lisa12345672/CWuploads/CWgreenChinesevase-Copy_zpsee53a5ff.jpg[/IMG]

    I have looked at your vase's bare spot on the body surface, one photo is right in the flash area, making it look brighter and smoother, the two other images are not detailed enough for a good close-up. You are right about the unglazed surface darkening over time, no matter if is is porcelain or earthenware.
  51. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    I'm sure you're right about it being earthenware. Its a cool piece though, old, and I only paid 45 bucks for it. Betcha I can get at least 500!
  52. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    idcloisonne -- I just realized why you were unhappy with me and must apologize for my words. When I said "oops that was 30 pounds", I intended to correct the wrong value I put on level 40. Hope I had made you feel better.
  53. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater -- I could see the pic without problem. I've uploaded it to another location, try this, let me know if you still have problem.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/shrine79/Capture_zps9212b5f5.jpg

    I would like to see your Yabu Meizan bowl, can you send me link?
  54. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater -- Thank you for adding the new photo, it saved my few guesses. Could I suggest you to think of "tie-hua" technique, instead of "an-hua"? In this theory, the motifs are not carved but stuck to the vase. Here is an example.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/shrine79/Capture_zps4d23f6c5.jpg
  55. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater -- I insist it's porcelain ware as I can't defy the white color of the body, nowhere near earthenware. The darken dots, if I was right, are micro dents on the underlying body as Kaolinite mud hasn't been ground fine enough. It's another good sign that the mud was not processed by powered machine. I therefore could think it's older than 50 years at least.
  56. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    I can see the yellow vase now, and you're right, that's the only other similar piece I'vee seen so far. Where did you find it? You said you don't know if its genuine or not?

    I'm conflicted on the whole porcelain vs. earthenware... The parts on top that I recently wore off are BONE white and very shiny, they look exactly like porcelain, but the rest of the body looks grainy like earthenware, though it could just be that it wasn't ground up enough like you said, and the yellow glaze filled the indents and made it look darker. I'm not an expert though. I did look up some examples of Chinese earthenware and some of them were quite light in color, but nowhere near as shiny and white as the parts I scrathed off on top. I really don't know what to think. You seem to know your though

    I think you're right about the tie-hua technique, that looks a lot like what I have here. They don't look like they were stuck on though, I can see marks left by incising tools. Not sure what that means

    Here is the Meizan bowl. Its one of the best pieces of Satsuma I've ever had. Yabu Meizan was one of the greatest Satsuma artists of all time. It was painted with a brush made from a single hair. The little samurai on the bottom are playing Go and Shogi with each other. A 4.25" tall plain vase by him sold for $28,000.

    http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/113279-yabu-meizan-satsuma-bowl
  57. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    Stillwater -- It would be long talk into the porcelain technique, I just try to give info that immediately related to your question. "tie-hua" doesn't necessarily mean there is no carving required. On the contrary, most "tie-hua" has carvings to refine the motif, especially on this kind of huge vase. Combined techniques in short.
  58. senzvofi, 6 months ago
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Clearing the watersCoastal zones, for example, are an area where the two arms from the department are deeply <b>intertwined,</b> Whittle says <b>—</b> addressing issues such since climate change, rising sea levels, urbanization of <b>coastlines</b> and pollution of coast waters. The methods the team developed for generating laboratory-scale high-speed impacts, and <b>for</b> measuring the impacts' effects inside a precise way, “can be <b>an</b> extremely useful quantitative tool for your development of protective nanomaterials, ” says Lee, the lead author of the paper, who did much of<br><img src="http://animal.discovery.com/images/breed-selector/dogs/breeds/greater-swiss-mountain-dog_04_lg.jpg"><br> this research whilst in MIT's Department of Materials Science and Executive.<br> MEXICO CITY — For generations, Mexico has been widely seen in the usa as a Third <b>World</b><br><img src="http://pad2.whstatic.com/images/thumb/c/c3/Love-Step-1.jpg/550px-Love-Step-1.jpg"><br> neighbor, a source of cheap labor, illegal immigration and drugs.<br> And so <b>on,</b> down to Pegi 3, effectively the video game equivalent of any U certificate. 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  59. senzvofi, 6 months ago
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Professor Ali Nesin, the founder of the Nesin Mathematics Community, <b>has</b> a saying I <b>like</b> very a lot: <b>"In</b> a modern sense, the difference between the master and a slave <b>is</b> the master understands the mathematical proof behind an idea and the slave does not.<br> “In the late 1980s, I suggested a<br><img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_XXzcjLLj-o/TV5xYSEVwjI/AAAAAAAABZ8/x5tk2aNW-YM/s760/lovely_tree.jpg"><br> revolutionary concept: an underwater vehicle that has no tether and travels inside the deep ocean, making decisions on its own without feedback from an operator, ” <b>says</b> Chryssostomidis, whose research has transformed the concept associated with AUVs since untethered underwater robots were first produced in the <a href = "http://ghtyu67ukn.com">fghtes56 </a> at the University regarding Washington. Donilon had been mentioned as<br><img src="http://assets.shitbrix.com/hashed_silo_content/c25/562/a58/resized/wtf-camping-camping-wtf-you-ll-shit-brix-c8f323.jpg"><br> a achievable White House chief of staff, but now that the position has attended Pete Rouse, history gives Donilon the nod <b>to</b> substitute departing <b>national</b> securit NEW YORK <b>--</b> Bank shareholders got a long-awaited gift in the U. Moreover, asserts Dower, in <b>launching</b> war in Iraq, <b>America</b> became enveloped in the same unreasonable “culture of war” as its past opponents. There were<br><img src="http://media.avclub.com/images/422/422323/16x9/627.jpg%3F7300"><br> no thrills from Brandon Paul with this one, no last-second jumpers to send Illinois to another round.<br> "The market in Germany is <b>however</b> buoyed with a regulatory environment, which heightens the attractiveness of eco houses. 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The pro-UK Better Together campaign said in which taking the 13 years since devolution, that variation was even more extreme: in 1999, oil revenues fell to £2. <b>An</b> answer on whether the observed particles are now being produced by collisions of dark matter can come from graphing the numbers of electrons and positrons versus <b>the</b> vitality of those particles. I've got Broadchurch all ready to proceed. And, <b>in</b> the latest blast in the running dispute involving the Fox News chief and Obama, he comes perilously close to adopting a vintage racist stereotype <b>by</b> calling the <b>president</b> "lazy". <b>If</b> so, very well done. Answer: Neither.. Students are “very engaged <b>in</b> challenges that relate with the developing world, ” Whittle says. The TEM technique could help in obtaining ways to make such batteries practical <b>in</b> the future. 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The shot went out-of-bounds and cost him the outright lead Saturday inside the Wells Fargo Championship, and Mickelson was angry about his selection. The dark bands on the bottom display screen block the light<br><img src="http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/dog-9.jpg"><br> coming from the display's backlight in a way that each eye sees only the image designed for it. On Wednesday at its Build developer conference in Bay area, Microsoft unveiled the preview of Windows 8. carrier -- Sprint. A new algorithm called the sparse Quickly Fourier Transform, developed at MIT, would modify the signal in <b>the</b><br><img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f3e9taMe7no/UIhzojqUyNI/AAAAAAAAAao/rXTnpZw03oI/s1600/Miniature_Australian_Cattle_Dog_Pacey_IMG_3637.jpg"><br> spectrum-sensing application in a manner that offsets both the loss of resolution and also the increase in power consumption.<br> Teachers, according <b>to</b> many who speak for these, don't like <b>the</b> state tests that are already imposed on them and their students. Using this system, scientists can alter several genome sites simultaneously and may achieve much <b>greater</b> control over where fresh genes are inserted, says Feng Zhang, an assistant professor of brain and <b>cognitive</b> sciences at MIT and leader from the research team. Even the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) acknowledged inside a recent report that teachers are second only to <b>social</b> workers being the most stressed workers in the land. Americans<br><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff126/co-pirate/Hilarious.jpg"><br> are divided over who would be critical to a potential government <b>shutdown,</b> with large numbers saying Republicans <b>and</b> President <b>Obama</b> are playing politics with all the issue, according to a new Washington Post poll.<br> Instead, Lozano's design is a flat, compact square — much like a personal computer chip — covered with 500 microscopic ideas that, when <b>stimulated</b> with voltage, emit tiny beams of ions. The <b>team</b> is also looking at an additional possible animal model: the<br><img src="http://njmonthly.com/downloads/8457/download/Tough_Mudder_4.jpg"><br> whisker of <b>a</b> seal. "The referee had to make an very difficult decision but we have seen lots of games <b>when</b> a red card does not really matter. So if you were to split the actual ladder in two, breaking the paired rungs, then on each of these struts you would have all the <b>details</b> needed to replace the missing one.<br> "You probably <b>thought</b> we were all about 1497, being a traditional organisation, " joked one aide.
  60. racer4four racer4four, 6 months ago
    Stillwater have you been drinking from VintageFrans water supply?
    Your posts go off!
    Ignorance here admitted to - I have never seen a large Chinese vase in yellow like this and I love the shape, the decoration but most of all the colour.
  61. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    What the HECK is all that senzvofi?? Someone's off their meds
  62. idcloisonne idcloisonne, 6 months ago
    Still,
    Your vase is growing on me... it is quite remarkable, a shame it was made into a lamp.
    The shape can be called Meiping, or a variation of the Meiping shape, you would be surprised how many there are. Some auction houses might call it 'ovoid' like an egg, or 'baluster' like a staircase's wooden ornate railing post.
    I grew up in a family where complete accuracy of the spoken word was really important, I went back to the dictionnary to check the words, porcelain, pottery and ceramics. Ebay and many sellers confuse the what is the right term for what they are selling.
    Ceramic is anything that is fired in a kiln but not made of metal, pottery is earthenware, stoneware, clayware that is handled to make a vessel of some kind, ei. a brick is not pottery. Porcelain is a ceramic that is made of kaolin, a fine bright-pure white product when fired and glazed, 'bone' white is not the right shade.
    Now, for the last 3 centuries at least many countries have produced all types of ceramics, with varying chemical and clay compositions, varying glazes, with varying results. It can be very confusing to determine what's what.
    I had a good laugh this morning when I checked porcelain and pottery pieces sold on liveauctioneers.com in the last few years. So many pieces were described by the wrong ceramic term. (that is to my eye and in my humble opinion)
    One last comment about values, Chinese antique are selling very well but there are exceptions from what I have seen in the last two years: the piece must be in excellent condition, it must be close to or over 100 years old, and it must appeal to the Chinese cultural sense. In other words if it looks to much like a gaudy export, they are not interested.
    Still, your vase meets this criteria except for the condition. I have no idea how much profit you would make at auction. It's a great vase either way.
  63. shrine shrine, 6 months ago
    idcloisonne - Thank you for the clarification of words, inspiring. The criteria of valuation of chinese porcelain is almost right, with few exceptions.
  64. Stillwater Stillwater, 6 months ago
    Well, thanks for coming around idcloisonne : ) I'm going to try to get the base off and see what I can get for it as a vase. Maybe show it to my friend at Bonham's, see if its worth getting the hole restored. Wish me luck buddy, thanks for all your time and info. Thank you too Shrine, you've been a very big help

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