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Art Glass1383 of 21918Welz Rose BowlFor Music Lovers
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    Posted 1 year ago

    Kiwimade
    (7 items)

    Not sure if Victorian or Art Nouveau, if anyone knows or a maker that would be great picked both of them up today for $25.00.
    9.5 cm tall, top 78cm wide.
    Are they Loetz? Iridescent yellow, with circle pattern.
    Thank you in advance.

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    Comments

    1. Wow22, 1 year ago
      These posts may be of interest:
      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/174750-welz-spiraloptisch-who-made-the-d?in=441-activity
      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/101627-bohemian-welz-spiraloptisch-gold-cadmium?in=441-activity
      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/176429-art-nouveau-welz-spiraloptisch-pink-vase?in=441-activity
    2. Kiwimade, 1 year ago
      Thank you Wow22 looking now.
    3. truthordare truthordare, 1 year ago
      But then there are other opinions that these lovely glass pieces are by Kralik, I own one in cranberry iridescent glass. If your are curious, they were produced early 20th century in Bohemia, Austria.
      The translucent yellow is rare color for these glass pieces, and a pair even more so. Great find! Thanks for posting.
      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/275253-early-century-czech-glass-trio-by-kralik
    4. sklo42 sklo42, 1 year ago
      Kralik and Welz made a small bowl shape which at first glance appear the same. Similar yes but not the same. On the Welz one the pointy lobe or tear drop shape goes right up to where neck flares out. On the Kralik version the teardrop shape finishes about an inch lower down. I have both.
    5. sklo42 sklo42, 1 year ago
      So not Loetz but Welz, and very pretty!
    6. Wow22, 1 year ago
      Sklo's post - 3rd reference in my comment @ 1 - clearly shows the difference in shape in the final image. All references were included so that you could digest the arguments and decide for yourself. Certainly Welz, in my opinion. And an uncommon colour.
    7. scottvez scottvez, 1 year ago
      Beautiful Welz!

      scott
    8. Kiwimade, 1 year ago
      Thank you all for your comments I am unable to thank individually at time of posting. They look to be Welz, Thank you, Truth or Dare or anyone, Do you know a value for these as a pair. This is just for my own knowledge as they are not for sale.
    9. Kiwimade, 1 year ago
      Thank you glassiegirl
      .i did not know about the asking price thing. Okay let's drop that, what I want to know is.... we're are these now. I live in New Zealand and have just found these. Where do you folks live? Who have similAr treasures of this kind. ( please do not give st address) I am trying to chart. Migration over this wide world.
      Regards
      Craig


    10. welzebub, 1 year ago
      The Welz and Kralik pages on Kralik-glass.com have both been updated.

      The only conundrum regarding this decor seems to lay with those that choose to remain ignorant of, and/or ignore robust supportable research on the topic. Research, which it should be pointed out, that has transpired in the 20 or so years since the attribution to Kralik was first made.

      http://www.kralik-glass.com/kralikspiraloptarray.html

      http://www.kralik-glass.com/welzspiraloptischarray.html



    11. truthordare truthordare, 1 year ago
      Will wonders never cease? Sorry Kiwimade, you have hit on one of our Czech glass decor pieces, that as collectors, we do not all agree about who produced the other examples, apart from Loetz which was an top notch Austrian glass manufacture in Bohemia early 20th.
      We are a mix of English speaking collectors from all over, the site is American, you will find that there are several Americans, Australians, Canadians, British, German, etc, as well as NZ.
      You have a good eye for glass, these are pieces that we would have all liked to find. Thanks for posting.
    12. Kiwimade, 1 year ago
      Hi truthordare Thank you for your reply. I will say it is a Welz/ Kralik glass, Lol.
      I am thinking more towards Welz glass though.
      Thank you for sharing your knowlwdge.
      Kiwimade
    13. Kiwimade, 1 year ago
      Hmmmm glassiegirl you have a few good points about "one Glasshouse", and the inkwell shape. I think this needs to be looked at further ... but where would one start? I don't live in Europe?
    14. welzebub, 1 year ago
      I do not participate in this forum any longer, but in this case I have made an exception in order to refute the attempt at dispelling a robustly researched Welz attribution. I also do so to respond to a couple of comments which are not based in sound research.

      The Spiraloptisch link to Kralik with the inkwell was partially developed using the idea that the draped decor, also found on inkwells, was a decor that was only produced by Kralik. We now know that to be a false assumption. That is the reason they have never been used to trace the source of the production. It is also noteworthy that the same study of inkwells used the Welz shape in this post to attribute the inkwell to Kralik, by attributing the shape to be Kralik in the Spiraloptisch décor in a cranberry glass that matched the inkwell. That was an incorrect attribution.

      That same researcher also made the claim that Kralik produced an entire line of product in a decor referred to as Silberband. That claim is now known to be completely incorrect, as that line of glass was actually shown to be production by Heckert in a decor they referred to as Changeant. That was proven in 2014 by Volkmar Schordt. The website http://www.Kralik-glass.com also reflects that attribution change as well.

      The same researcher declared that vases in the Welz case in Passau showing examples of the draped décor were not by Welz, but were also Kralik production. We also now know that the draped decor was produced by Welz, so any attributions made including the use of the assumption that the decor was only made by Kralik would be based on a completely incorrect foundation.

      As far as shapes go, I am more than “surprised” that someone who claims to research Bohemian/Czech glass production would try to infer that a quite unique shape with two different styles of decors are likely not from the same company, and from two production time frames which could be separated by as little as 10+ years. There is evidence all over the Bohemian/Czech glass world that makers reused shapes in different styles of decors, and also in different time periods producing different aesthetics. Here is a link to an article that also shows the reuse of shapes in different period decors.


      http://www.kralik-glass.com/welzmazeresearch.html

      The shape of your pieces has never been seen in a decor that can be solidly linked to any house other than Welz. That is reflected in the article links in comment 1 by Wow22. The research that developed the Welz attribution for the decor occurred over a period of many years, and included the study of a wide variety of shapes. This one simply represents one of the more unique shapes used. At least one of the shapes used links the décor to Welz through a unique shape found in a glass that appears to have been proprietary. It is also noteworthy that the color of your examples is not one really seen in Kralik production. It is a color which is developed using Cadmium as a colorant, and interestingly, Welz filed an 1892 US patent using combinations of Cadmium and Selenium to develop different colors.

      Here is a link to a Welz page on a website owned by a user in this forum that both Glassiegirl and also Truthordare laud as being very knowledgeable and a great source of information, and have done so in this forum recently. The shape showing for the link to Spiraloptisch examples is a green version of your vases.


      https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/welz1/


      I certainly encourage you wholeheartedly to arrive at your own conclusion as to who you feel made your vases, but I also encourage you to do so following supportable claims, and not hypothetical “Maybes” proffered by someone who is critical of the researcher who made the attribution in the first place, while lauding someone else who also believes it to be correct.

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