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Kralik related - Organic shapes

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Bohemian Art Glass718 of 6439Rindskopf Tall Rubina Crackle VaseLoetz form and function!
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    Posted 2 years ago

    (233 items)

    Are these vases Kralik? To the best of my knowledge they are related to Kralik but not to the main line of
    Kralik. They could have been made by an unknown maker who was somehow related to Kralik (maybe a factory they acquired).

    There are some markings and technical work that is very similar to known Kralik, for example the knuckle rim in pic 1. and the powders in pic 2, 3, & 4. There is no arguing Kralik did those techniques- but did they do them this way?

    Then again, maybe Kralik did make these pieces in later years. Maybe they left broken pontils instead of grinding them or maybe they used the snap tool to save on productions costs. I am working on filing all "Kralik related" pieces and trying to tie them into regular kralik production lines. When I find a connection with mark, shape or decor it makes me happy and justifies the huge amounts of money spent on these Kralik related pieces

    1. Tall knuckle vases. Comes in many decors with a blue applied rim

    2. The "Owl" bowl. comes in many decors with broken pontil. Two of the decors match with tall knuckle vases and many decors and shaping techniques match with hand worked pieces

    3. Hand worked vases and bowls. These are related to owl bowls in decors and in the punch-in technique.

    4. Vases and bowls with applications: Related to every group by shape, or decor. Look at the last pic on the lower right- the rim appears to match the knuckle vases

    Bohemian Art Glass
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    1. truthordare truthordare, 2 years ago
      I would add that some of these shapes were advertised together in the Butler Brothers ads from 1929-31. I also have collected some of these pieces in the translucent optic application effects.

      That the production changed over time is a natural process of any industry, which do not operate in a vaccuum, and are affected by outside circumstances. The Big depression of the 1930's had it's worst effect on the USA economy, and they happened to be the largest market for Czech glass exports.

      It would not be surprising that some measures were adopted to mitigate the losses, be that a less expensive glass fabrication, an arrangement with other cheaper sub contractors for some orders. Etc.

      We as collectors should be as flexible as they were, and understand that we know little of what happened exactly, and cannot make some across the board declarations as far as identification and attributions. Life does not work that way.

      I would like to add some images of one of my site's Kralik page which has the most to do with this fine post.
    2. welzebub, 2 years ago
      There are also several issues with shapes being shown in that link that do not actually match the ad shapes they appear to be linked to. By doing so, it show pieces in decors as "Kralik", when in fact the shape has never been linked to their production, nor do they match the ad shape they seem to reference.

      Here is one group relating to an ad:

      In the image in the link below, the ad image and the piece to the right of it are the same shape. The other 4 pieces are examples appearing to be shown on that site as the ad image piece, and yet they are obviously quite different.

      I might be mistaken, but to the best of my knowledge, the shape being shown in the link above as an ad piece, has never been solidly linked to any production house.

      In this example linked below, the shapes being shown are not all the same shape, and yet they are shown as shapes in another Butler ad, and shown as Kralik on that page.

      Although I have several issues with this particular group, I should point out that the ad states the size of these pieces as ranging in height from 7.25 to 9.25 inches. The orange example (last image on rt.) being shown as an ad piece is not one that can be included in that group. There are 2 primary reasons for that. The first and foremost, is that it is not the same shape as the line art. The second reason is that the piece is smaller than the dimensions shown in the ad. This piece is actually about 5 inches in height. I know that because the image being used on the site is actually an image I took of a piece in my personal collection.

      It is for reasons such as these, and there are many other examples that could be shown, that some forum members here do not recommend that site as a reliable source for attributions.
    3. kralik1928 kralik1928, 2 years ago
      This post is not a good one to refer to shapes studies outside of the subject I’m looking at here. The butler brother pictures are great by themselves but don’t identify if they are Kralik, Welz or any other company.

      On another note, does anybody know the chronological order of those BB posts in regards to the BB Bambus post? Do they come before, the same time or or after the BB Bambus page?

      In regards to the quilted pieces I would show a set of them on their own but I don’t have enough images because they are outside my field of collecting interest

      Craig is right there can be a lot of confusion if the shape studied aren’t accurate - I would want to make suggestions if asked by email but I don’t want the back and fourth to be here.
      TOD, this page if very nicely formatted and I think it is an important piece of the puzzle

      In conclusion TOD, if I look at the page I see main-line Kralik pieces and Kralik related pieces... I think this page goes against my point of writing the post in the first place. Some of those pieces are shapes and decors that we see with Czech arched signatures (Kralik) and some of the pictures are pieces that never have a Czech arched signature (kralik related).
    4. welzebub, 2 years ago
      Jericho asked: "On another note, does anybody know the chronological order of those BB posts in regards to the BB Bambus post? Do they come before, the same time or or after the BB Bambus page?" Can you clarify this question please. I am not sure what you are asking about.
    5. kralik1928 kralik1928, 2 years ago
      There is a BB ad with all Bambus glass, is it dated? If so, did it get published earlier than the other Czech glass adds, around the same period or later.

      I guess it would be helpful to see all the Czech glass ads in chronological order- this could help with the working theory that Kralik (like all others) got cheaper as time went on an the economy got worse and worse until invasion
    6. truthordare truthordare, 2 years ago
      You need the blue Monograph 121, pub 2012 by the WVMAG. These pages have been issued in chronological order.

      The Bambus selection is on a page dated October 1931, it is one assortment out of four. Since you asked this interesting question and I have an idea why, when did Kralik sell their good Bambus line to wholesaler BB for distribution, at a lower price?

      As you know Jericho, it was the only offer of Bambus with them. On the other hand, the other assortments on the same page, two of which are Czech, were advertised before, in 1930 and in July 1929, I consider these assortments to be Kralik as well. The Great Depression started in October 1929.

      By providing you a page from my site, I could not change the approach to fit your intent, only show more glass I think is pertinent, and yes that mostly do not have the arched mark, but I believe the distribution of Kralik glass exports was so large, that several businesses were involved and the glass was either not marked, or it was marked with a different signature, such as the straigth Czechoslovakia.

      Have you ever noticed that Kralik was the only one that did not use the MADE IN... part of the acid mark. Apart from Loetz, who had a Czech0-Slovakia, when it did have a mark on it's glass during the intewar era.
    7. welzebub, 2 years ago
      Monogram 121, which I had Tom Felt assemble for me for research purposes, shows all of the Czech glass ads by Butler from 1901-1941, to include some non art glass examples. The only appearance of the Bambus ad is in Oct. 1931.
    8. welzebub, 2 years ago
      TOD says: "Have you ever noticed that Kralik was the only one that did not use the MADE IN... part of the acid mark. Apart from Loetz, who had a Czech0-Slovakia, when it did have a mark on it's glass during the intewar era."

      In fact, that statement is far from being accurate. In this inked post alone, which shows only 30 marks from post WWI Czechoslovakia, there are a good 10 of these 30 that use only the word Czechoslovakia with and without a hyphen. Some are inked, and some of them are acid marks. Many of these marks are considered to be from companies that have never been accurately identified. I also have a library of images showing vases with varying marks, and I am sure there are others there also.
    9. truthordare truthordare, 2 years ago
      My favorite glass pieces are at the two ends, the orange and green colored glass combinations. These are very rare. Must be not as popular as the other colors were. Thanks for this post Jericho, it is always highly satisfying to see a Czech glass collector going in a new direction for research, and added information purposes.
    10. kralik1928 kralik1928, 2 years ago
      Thanx for the Butler Brothers info

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