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Rindskopf,"PEPITA" Decor,,Art Nouveau Iridescent Vase, Circa 1900

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Moonstonelov…'s loves1256 of 12104Cobalt and aventurine vase by KameiFritz Heckert Silberband Iridescent Vase
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    Posted 6 years ago

    Alan2310
    (914 items)

    Today i found this a very beautiful Antique Austrian Art Glass Vase. The Vase features a very interesting form with great molded web designs and an unusual colorway changing from Green to Red to Purple at the top. The Vase is of very fine quality, I am just not sure if it is indeed Loetz or one of the other fine Austrian companies of the period.I was so sure about my previous post few minute ago(Loetz)"Thanks again to Lee", then for this one i will need help for ID this very attractive Irridecent Vase.
    This vase stand 8.50 inch tall, 3.25 at the widest point, on a 3 inch base.

    Many thanks to inky, mac, lee and Lisa for the effort to solve the mystery on this vase.
    Very special thanks to. welzebub for is unquestionable effort and incredible research to prove once again, it's not that easy to put a maker ID on a piece of glass.
    I got to admit, this is a learning journey with such great groups of glass collectors on CW.

    Thanks for Viewing.
    Alan

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    Comments

    1. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 6 years ago
      Alan, I believe this maybe either Kralik or unknown. Lovely piece.
      Lee
    2. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks lee for the comment and the love.
      Much appreciated.
      Lee.,,,,,Tell me if i am wrong, or vase collectors put Kralik name very quick on some piece, or kralik was more common then other maker.
      I just say that because my pull feather vase( RINDSKOPF), looklike because, no other vase of this maker was found with a mark at the bottom, make mind a Kralik !!
      Anyway, i am still looking for few more books to buy, some are rare to find, sold out, out of press and so on.

      Alan
    3. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 6 years ago
      Alan, I have learned that back when...a lot of information about makers and their glass shapes and decors were lost. So a lot of old research books are obsolete. As new researchers are coming out with great information to update what was incorrectly documented. Kralik is a more common name a lot of dealers and seller call a piece when they either want to sell or have no clue. . I have spent a pretty penny to buy research books. Enough to to even buy a Loetz :). I am still buying more :)
      Lee
    4. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Thanks lee for your time and reply to me.
      Really appreciated.
      Alan
    5. inky inky, 6 years ago
      Hello! Alan..that is one beautiful vase you have there and I always thought these were by Rindskopf...but! I have been wrong more times than I like to say!...here is a link to Michelle007's group of the same...I am sure some one else will come along and confirm or help put you in the right direction....:-)

      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/149644-rindskopf-molded-veining-vase-examples
    6. Mac63 Mac63, 6 years ago
      I'd go with Rindskopf on this one.
    7. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Hi
      Mac
      Many thanks for the comment, much appreciated.
      Yes that what I think to....before posting it, well because I being so unsuccessful on id, lately, I decided to post with no ID
      Alan
    8. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 6 years ago
      Alan, you see I make mistakes also. I agree with Mac and Inky. I had a brain lapse. Sorry.
      Lee
    9. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Hi
      Lee
      Don't worry about that , I am just unsure about this one.
      Thank you
      Alan
    10. SEAN68 SEAN68, 6 years ago
      Great new postings of glass vases!!! beautiful!!!
    11. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks, inky, mac and lee, to confirm my suspicion on this great vase.
      Much appreciated.
      Alan
    12. Trey Trey, 6 years ago
      Beautiful colors:)
    13. Rick55 Rick55, 6 years ago
      Beautiful iridescence Alan!!
    14. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks, lisa, SEAN, trey and rick for the kind comment and the love, much appreciated.
      Yes trey & rick, this is a nice iridescence colors, so far my best.
      Alan
    15. welzebub, 6 years ago
      Great vase in a wonderful shape...... and the décor is a very interesting one to study.....

      A recent auction at Quittenbaum, of Pallme König product, included examples by PK in a décor which many would call Pepita, or a "variant" of Pepita. That seems to indicate that "Pepita" may not be the marker for Rindskopf production that some seem to think it is.

      For many years I have owned an example of this style of surface webbing on a very small piece in a spatter décor which is unlike any identified or known Rindskopf production.

      This may indicate, at the least, that the décor may have been produced by multiple houses, if Rindskopf did indeed produce it at all. Although at one time I thought the décor had been produced by them, it was based on a Pepita" example. I am not at all sure any more.
    16. bohemianglassandmore bohemianglassandmore, 6 years ago
      I would agree with Rindskopf. Alan, if I might suggest - photographing a colored piece like this against a white background would show a better representation of the colors, which get lost in the black background.
    17. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      That's impressive lisa, great job.
      Alan
    18. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      I will change my background tonight as suggested by warren.
      Alan
    19. welzebub, 6 years ago
      So I will continue to play the devil's advocate here...... The shape in this post is attributed to Rindskopf based on a previous researcher indicating that Pepita is a marker for Rindskopf production. The shape in this post is not seen, to the best of my knowledge, in any other distinctive and known Rindskopf décors.

      As far as I know, the shape is seen in a common green with the webbed molding, and also in the "Pepita" with the webbed molding, and now in the "metallic" finish with the webbed molding.

      I most certainly, as always, welcome the opportunity to see additional examples of this shape which fall outside of what I believe to be currently known examples……

      I believe that the Pepita example is what led to the shape being ID’d Rindskopf...... and as a result the "molded web décor as being Rindskopf also.

      I propose the distinct possibility that the Pepita décor is not a Rindskopf marker. Being a marker means no other company would have made a decor which looks the same..... So we would not see examples in a “Pepita” décor which could NOT be attributed to Rindskopf…..

      I also propose that if you take the décor recognized commonly as Pepita out of the picture, you really have nothing which supports the Rindskopf attribution...... and several examples with the same surface webbing as this vase, can be found in distinct décors which would not be commonly associated with Rindskopf production.

      Just some food for thought…..
    20. welzebub, 6 years ago
      I would add that the vase in the link above in the same shape, and ID'd as Rindskopf, was ID'd based on the marker "Pepita" décor on the example.
    21. welzebub, 6 years ago
      Great New Pics!! The new pics would indicate that this shape is not seen a metallic finish as it appeared in the first set of pics, but only in green, and the "Pepita" decors so far.
    22. Michelleb007 Michelleb007, 6 years ago
      I just wanted to add a few of my thoughts on this decor...I have four vases in what I call this 'molded veining' pattern. In the past, I felt the were Rindskopf, but one thing has always bothered me a bit about them - the shapes weren't seen in any other Rindskopf decors (I had only seen them in the 'Pepita', a green, and a very dark iridescent finish). So I have kept an eye out for them over the last several months, and created a file of all the examples of this molded finish I came across. Personally, I am now open to considering that they may have been made by another maker. I have close to forty Rindskopf vases in my collection now, and by shape they are quite distinctive. Except for the shape of the one wasp-waisted vase, the others in the 'molded veining' just don't have enough Rindskopf characteristics for me. They are more generic in shape (not a put down, just a thought when comparing them to known Rindskopf forms), and there are some unexplained examples of really wild colored spatter vases with this molding pattern as well. Also - just food for thought - a very Pepita-like decor (it fooled me!) has been found to have been done by Pallme-König, so I personally feel that this glass coloration can't be attributed to only one maker anymore...
    23. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Thank you michelle, i appreciated your comment, so you think this could be P.König ?done o lot of threading or vine into the glass, possible.
      But i read also recently, the vine or threated are bigger, and deep in the glass !
      This one was at the surface of the the glass....:(
    24. Michelleb007 Michelleb007, 6 years ago
      Hi Alan, no - sorry if I wasn't clear - I don't think this vase is PK; I was just saying that I have seen an example of a very Pepita-like decor by PK, so other makers did work in this coloration. And I also wanted to add that your vase is lovely, whoever happened to have made it! :)
    25. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Hi
      Michelle
      I was sleeping almost to the keyboard last night, my fault, don't worry.
      Thanks again
      Alan
    26. bohemianglassandmore bohemianglassandmore, 6 years ago
      I am still of the opinion that this is a Rindskopf piece, and I would add that if you are looking for shape comparison, the shape is much more Rindskopf than anything PK would ever do. The shape of both the top half and bottom half of this piece appear in other well documented Rinsdkopf decors, so on balance, it is all Rindskopf to me. Furthermore, cut rims on PK pieces are so uncommon that any time I see one, I think it must have been cut down after it was made - either that, or it was meant to receive a metal fitting of some kind.
    27. welzebub, 6 years ago
      Below is a link to an image of the Quittenbaum PK example, along with 8 other examples in the same shape and in known PK decors. The attribution of the décor to PK was from a very large PK collection sold in Nov. 2014. The collection was one of the largest offering of PK production that I am aware of having occurred in recent times. PK production is amongst the most difficult production to locate as a collector.

      http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/stories/f81VNpQzdfS7YDks5WVkYw.jpg

      That image can be found in my CW post discussing both Pepita and the molded webbing décor:

      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/157170-the-molded-web-the-mystery-dcor?in=activity

      "If there is a 'pepita' like glass vase in a PK shape, that does not infer that all Rindskopf attributed and documented Passau Museum based publications with pepita glass decors are in question, as well as our own pieces of pepita glass. "

      While not calling into question all Rindskopf attributions, (no one actually inferred it did anything of the sort) the production of a PK "Pepita" does call for reasonable doubt when evaluating a Rindskopf attribution which can only be supported through a link using that décor as a marker for Rindskopf production.

      The generally applied standard for attributions regarding auction houses is to not use auction site references as sources of identification.... that is very true. In the case of the PK attribution proffered in the Quittenbaum auction, the attribution was supported by 8 other examples, in the same shape in known PK décors. It is also worth noting that auction was exclusively PK items. (143 pieces)
    28. bohemianglassandmore bohemianglassandmore, 6 years ago
      Craig, PK and Rindskopf were practically neighbors in the Teplitz area, so it's no surprise that there may have been sharing of resources so that orders could be filled. This could include molds as well.
    29. welzebub, 6 years ago
      I do not doubt that at all Warren. I have never doubted that such things may have occurred, nor have I ever stated they did not. I have made my views on that quite clear in this forum, and also in posted articles on my website.

      My only point here is that based on possibilities such as that, the appearance of the décor on a different companies shape would be highly problematic for the use of that décor as an indication of a marker for a house.....

      It is worth noting that the Pepita decor has been seen, most notably on a couple of shapes identified regularly as production by two other houses... Kralik and now Pallme König. Rindskopf has a number of décors that I would still consider markers..... Pepita is just not one of them based on what I have seen over the last few years.

      That is really my only point in all of this.... and based on that, I feel that the assumption that a shape such as this one posted here was made by Rindskopf because of the Pepita décor, needs more than that single identifiable decor to support it. Others are certainly welcome to consider it a marker..... I simply feel that doing so will cause some issues in the long run.

      I personally do not feel in research we can say that it is a "marker" for production..... unless we see it on a different companies shape.... then we don't have an answer for how that happened.....
    30. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks, EZa

      katherinescollections, for the love, much appreciated.
      Alan
    31. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks,,welzebub, for incredible comments and share yours experiences on this mystery world of glass, always be thankful and thank you for the love.
      I know pretty well researching because I do a lot for banking related memorabilia, for more then25 years.
      Time, travel to the library, reading and share with other fellow , now i just have to do it again for glass, you are inspiration for me and some others for sure.
      Regards
      Alan
    32. welzebub, 6 years ago
      My pleasure Alan, I am glad you found the information to be useful. I am always available by email also, through the webmaster contact info at my website. Always glad to help.
    33. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 6 years ago
      Alan, I guess I have learned also to stick to my own first thoughts. It's tough being a new glass collector myself. I am happy you have an open mind to learning also!! What a blessing that is to have a new collector who has a fantastic collection!! Congrats!!
    34. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Hi
      Lee
      It's look like, last night was nasty, I start to thinking, you maybe right.
      I am 53 years old, I do research on few field, that's included; genealogy, birds nesting databases and recording, also banking research and I am kind patient person, when I found this vase, i do some research, kind confident was RINDSKOPF, even with few users approving, I change my mind, I should stick with this ID, now lisa was gone, she is upset, and I understand why.......:(
      I learn a lot on this one.
      Regards
      Alan
    35. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks, vintagelamp, for the love, much appreciated.
      Alan
    36. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Many thanks, mike, for the love, much appreciated.
      Alan
    37. Alan2310 Alan2310, 5 years ago
      aura
      Vintagefran
      Glassie, many thanks to all of you for the love, much appreciated that you take some time to stop by.
      Apologize for the delay.

      Regards
      Alan
    38. Alan2310 Alan2310, 5 years ago
      Alfredo
      martika
      AmatoorPikr, many thanks to all of you for the love, much appreciated that you take some of you time to stop by.

      Regards
      Alan

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