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PK vs Poschinger - tricky decor and shape

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    Posted 5 years ago

    glasfreund
    (26 items)

    An earlier post by Alfredo (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204299-pallme-konig-green-vase-identified-by) presented an interesting decor attributed to Pallme-König & Habel (Elisabethhütte). It shows red threads on a darker green ground. The shape is know for PK vases, as the post proofs.
    It is a tricky vase though, as the same shape was produced by Poschinger Buchenau. Therefore, the shape alone will not tell us the maker. But there is a difference between PK and Poschinger examining the threads. At a closer look the PK threads are veined (ruby red with clear glass). Poschinger threads are colored throughout and cased by colorless glass. The latter is an easy to check feature of Poschinger threads. The reason to encase the red threads is to let them look more colorful and brilliant.
    The first picture shows a PK vase with veined threads. Compare the bottom (second picture) with Alfredo's vase for the difference.
    The third image shows a Poschinger vase with red threads an green ground. (This shape is known with a number of different Poschinger decors.) These threads are cases in colorless glass.
    The last picture again presents a Poschinger vase with the more common dark ground and red threadings. Here again the red threads are encased in colorless glass.
    The Pallme-König decor with ruby red threads on green glass was named "Koryntha". A name for the similar Poschinger decor is not yet identified.

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    Comments

    1. scottvez scottvez, 5 years ago
      The education continues....

      scott
    2. glasfreund glasfreund, 5 years ago
      I saw this post only after posting mine: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204428-pallme-koenig-versus-poschinger-threaded?in=442
      It supports my opinion on the vases. Thanks.
    3. welzebub, 5 years ago
      I would start by saying that I agree with both Volkmar and Kai on the attribution in question.

      I think this is also a good opportunity to examine shapes closely for a moment. I would simply like to offer some views on the shapes being looked at here along with décors. The use of shapes and evaluations of their similarities and subtle differences has been critical to my work on Welz. In the absence of any real documentation at all, shapes and décors were all that were available for me to use. Here is what I see in the items that have been presented in these posts. This link will provide an image I compiled using four examples from the 3 posts. I hope some find this useful.

      http://www.kralik-glass.com/images/ShapePK-Posch.jpg

      In the first and second images, Poschinger and PK, we see what I would classify as an extremely similar shape. Without additional proof, as presented by Kai and Volkmar, the shapes are similar enough to be considered the same, yet different enough that one would have to question if they are the same house or not. The most noticeable differences to me are in the shape in the region of the foot, the slope of the top of the foot as it transitions into the stem, and the thickness of the lower stem region above the base. It is my experience in working with shapes, that these differences could be either a different mold and house, or simple variations on the same shape due to production manipulations after removal from the mold.

      The additional observations looking at threading and how it is done, along with the ground color of the pieces, in this case allows us to determine the difference in production houses. Additional examples of these shapes from both houses would allow us to determine if these small shape variations are simply production artifacts or actual shape differences between a similar shape from the two companies. I think that would be an interesting study myself.

      Moving on to the third and fourth examples in my linked image, the problem with the attribution in Alfredo's post linking the Poschinger shape to PK production was due to a shape example being used which was not the same shape at all. Similar? Yes. Close enough to make an attribution with? Not in my opinion. This can be seen in looking at the last two images in the grouping. Also, in this set of images, although lighting can certainly make differences, there is a striking difference in the ground color of Volkmar's PK example (#2) and the Poschinger example owned by Alfredo (#4).

      I added this information and the image link as I thought it was a good opportunity to look at and discuss "similar shapes" as as they can be used in this research. The PK and Poschinger examples presented by Volkmar here were perfect to use.
    4. Alan2310 Alan2310, 5 years ago
      Nice, write up@glasfreund. , much appreciated to learn on this matter.
      Thanks for posting.

      Regards
      Alan
    5. Rick55 Rick55, 5 years ago
      The first three are great, but that last one... wow, wow wow! This is one for my must-have list. Hopefully one of these days I'll run into one :-)

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