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Loetz Blue Vesuvian Vase

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TrustyHuckster's loves10 of 143B.Edmands #3 ovid crockKralik Purple threaded vase
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    Posted 5 years ago

    (62 items)

    Hello friends. Here is a recent addition to my collection, and I believe this one is a bit scarce. It was listed as Steuben blue Aurene, which I know is incorrect. I am 99.9% sure this is actually Loetz Vesuvian, and in a color I think is either "Delphi" or cobalt silberiris. I have never seen this decor in blue, and this one has a beautiful iridescence. As you can see the glass is amber, which makes a very nice contrast to the blue, especially on the "drips". This is an effect similar to PG 1/4, in a more subtle form.

    So the moral is try looking around; things aren't always listed correctly.


    1. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Thanks Gary, it looks a lot better than the listing photos. I took a chance and it was worth it. :)
    2. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      I think this is Candia Delphi or candia silberiris mit trophen. the color denotation is the base glass not the color of the iridescence. I was watching this one. Went well out of my budget. :)
      Vesuvian I think refers to the crete glatt pieces with enamel.
    3. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Thanks Shawn Alisa and Kyle. I did notice that Mr. T's vase is almost identical, in a different color, and I always thought Vesuvian is the shape and Delphi is a finish. My Loetz Austria 1900 shows "Delphi" as a blue iridescent finish (Candia Delphi would be gold). So I'm sticking with Vesuvian, in Delphi or Cobalt Silberiris. No?
    4. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Maybe it's just the tadpole design in crete, but I am pretty sure it becomes no longer vesuvian when the color shifts. I could be wrong about that as well though. I am not even positive it's an actual Loetz designation. I don't see many pieces in the book with the drops but none of them (that I've found yet) say vesuvian as a decor designation.
    5. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Delphi IS a blue iridescent finish but (to the best of my knowledge) the color designation you see creta, cobalt, rubin or candia refers to the base color of the glass not the color of the finish.
    6. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Mit Trophen is what the shape book says about these shapes.
    7. cogito cogito, 5 years ago
      Whatever the true Loetz moniker/label, it's beautiful! Frankly, I like the "Mit Trophen" better than Vesuvian for these odd colored pieces.
    8. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Thanks Jeff. "Mit Trophen" to me sounds more like a description then a name; translated roughly as "with drips". This does fit the decoration. All of the Vesuvian I have seen is "Mit Trophen" but they are usually green. So maybe "with drips" is the name. And yes, in the long run it doesn't really matter. Thanks again!
    9. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Vesuvian is a definite decor. I do not think it means the shape with drops. I have been going thru the shape book I finally found a piece that has vesuvian listed as a decor. It has two variants listed of vesuvian it lists a number of phanomen piece wiht the drops and some more decors on a piece without the drops. I've seen five or six others mit trophen that do not list vesuvian as a decor. I strongly suspect it's a name that's been misused for years.
    10. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Okay, well here's another theory if you have a moment. Where does the name "Vesuvian" come from? Logically it might come from Mt. Vesuvius, the volcano! I think this vase looks a bit like a volcano, with lava dripping from the top. I might be crazy, but "Vesuvian" might be correct for this shape? Maybe yes? Just a thought.
    11. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      from what I am seeing it did have drops but many decors did and there were other decors on teh same shape that vesuvian would be on. It is a decor not a shape. I do not know what that decor is. I am not done reading the shape book. I am going thru it looking for drop shapes and reading the descriptions that go with them. I am also looking for vesuvian in shapes that do not have drops (haven't seen any so far) Mt vesuvius was associated with Pompeii and herculanium. To me the enameled pattern you see some times with these drop shapes looks very like some of the wall art pattern type stuff you'd see from that excavation.
    12. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      I don't know if I will find any definite answers looking thru the shape book. But, I do think this is something worth looking at now that we have more in depth references at our fingertips.

      This is the one I suspect is properly Vesuvian.
    13. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      well yeah, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. IMHO the decor on this is better than most I've seen with the trophen. :)
    14. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      I would lean toward :
      "Heliotrope mit Candia und sechs Tropfen" ...
      ... although anything with Heliotrope and Vesuvian would also suit me fine ...
    15. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      ... although looking at the last pic it might be more "mit bronze" ...
    16. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Thanks SteveS. I think you speak German fairly well? I like the fact that you counted the "Tropfen", and yes there are 6. I still cling to the idea that the name suggests a volcano shape, which this one has. It definately has "sechs tropfen" and everything else here sounds more like a description than a name. For instance calling it "Mit Tropfen" is like naming something "has spots" or "with stripes". That's not a name IMHO. Then again Vesuvian can be descriptive (as in "like or from Mt. Vesuvius"), but can also be a name. I agree that not all pieces mit tropfen are Vesuvian, and all Vesuvian vases might not have tropfen, but when it looks like a volcano with lava pouring out...
    17. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Vesuvian is definitely a decor and not a shape. this may have a passing resemblance to a volcano.. But as various shapes have vesuvius as a decor designation and also have designations like blauiris and delphi and most often fail to have vesuvius called out as a decor designation at all.. It's not likely that vesuvius has anything to do with the shape here looking like a volcano :)

      I looked for this shape and couldn't find it.
    18. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      Hi GSO
      Had a look through the Musterschnitte and 1900 Paris without any success ... There was a lot of bronze glatt done for Max Emanuel as well ... Think I checked that ...
      Apologies ... the Vesuvian comment above was a bit of a throw away line ...
      The Vesuvian Reference appears to be a reference to Klimt and perhaps to the Wiener Werkstatte eruption ... .?
    19. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      Lots of the names / components are descriptive eg "Streifen and Flecken", "Creta Glatt".
      If you want a dominant distinguishing feature here I think it is the (rare) Heliotrope banding rather than the form ...
    20. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago

      I don't think this is Heliotrope. I also don't think what is listed as heliotrope on is correct. I think that's norma, delphi or blauiris. It's also not the same shape. the loetz shapes are very precise. it does not have the indents in that shape.
    21. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      that particular shape should be 6 inches tall (I really doubt the one on kralik glass is that big but you never know) and it lists two decors. One is mattrubin iris which should have no design, but the drawing is shown with a flamboyant flame design, the decor that would match that is heliotrope mit dunkleblau und silber.. Which sounds a lot like a phanomen piece which would match something being shown at an exhibition. I think the one in that photo is blauiris.
    22. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      badly worded. I really wish there was an edit button here. I mean I think the one called heliotrope at kralik glass is really blauiris, not the one in the line drawings.

      In the big book of shapes most of 1901-1903 are missing. I am guessing that shape with the indents is a missing soldier.

      Heliotrope is also a bright purple color
    23. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      If you look at page 171 of the hatje cantz book it shows this same treatment (but not shape) as Candia silberiris 1901
    24. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      Hi Alisa
      The Heliotrope on Kralik glass is Good ... At least in that it matches perfectly with the piece shown in: Lötz auf der Weltausstellung Paris 1900 ...
      ... To me the Heliotrope (purple) is in the banding ... Although Deb has pointed out that Heliotrope is in Cantze as a Blautone ...
      .... don't see the similarity to p171 ... |-)
    25. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      the line drawing is different than the piece. If it were the same as in the line drawings it would show and allude to the dimples in the glass. Even if it is a blue color why would it be identical to silberiris?

      the piece on 171 has banding and is the same color. It's very bright lighting so you have to look at it very closely but it's there.

      the drawings are very accurate.
    26. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      the line drawing also shows a feathered shape which makes sense for the amount of detail they go into describing the heliotrope decor. That feathered shape would not correspond to the rubin mattiris they describe so it has to be the heliotrope decor they mention. I think it's a phanomen type thing not like this.
    27. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      Should Have said the Dekor of the piece on Kralik glass is identical to the piece in Paris 1900 ... Don't have the books here to check the shape ...
    28. SteveS SteveS, 5 years ago
      DAS ... could we have a closer picture of the base - as in picture 2 - trying to bring out the colors in the bands .... please
    29. dasullywon dasullywon, 5 years ago
      Yes Steve, I will post some closeups of the base to show the finish. I will try to do that this evening.

      There is some banding in the finish, and I think it is not silberiris. When I compared it to the Neuwirth book (1900) it most resembles Delphi, but there are only limited samples in that book. I will get those closeups.
    30. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago

      I'll post this too. This matches the line drawing in the book including the design. I think this is heliotrope.
    31. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      I'll post this *here* too
    32. Greatsnowyowl Greatsnowyowl, 5 years ago
      Do'h! Correct link. I can't even blame it on lack of caffeine
    33. Budek Budek, 5 years ago
      Thanks for sharing such a Stunning piece!

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