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Late 1800's All Original Double Barreled Hammer Breech-Loading W. Richards Shotgun

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    Posted 6 years ago

    electobacco
    (171 items)

    Here is an item from a relative of mine that it seems some of you may enjoy. It is 48 inches in length and all original. I do not know if it still fires properly.

    It says W. Richards on it. I believe it stands for Wesley Richards. There is also a serial number of 57500 stamped into the underside of the barrel. There are no other markings that I can see.

    I believe it is from the early 1800's. The gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day. Was it used in the war of 1812? You tell me. :) I believe it is a rare/scarce item.

    Thank you for looking as always my friends. Have a blessed remainder of the day and upcoming weekend! :)

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    Comments

    1. SEAN68 SEAN68, 6 years ago
      stunning buddy!!! ;)
    2. fhrjr2 fhrjr2, 6 years ago
      I am not a gun person but I did research one of these after a relative passed away. The lack of markings after the name indicates it is an inexpensive import. The lack of the name of the country it was imported from adds to the problem. Reproductions bearing these markings were produced well into the 1950's. The lack of markings was intentional so the weapon would clear customs import without additional taxes. If you research it you will find the company has a colorful and somewhat under the table approach to marketing.
    3. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Thank you for the information fhrjr2. I did some research on the item and yes. W. Richards is a name used on replicas of this sort of item. It would explain a great deal if I were able to connect the serial number to a date or specific location it was made.
    4. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      I thank all of you for the love as well my friends! :)
    5. pw-collector pw-collector, 6 years ago
      http://www.westleyrichards.com/services/gun-histories
      Here is a link that will give you a date if it is a Wesley Richards. Unfortunately it did not show records when I typed in 57500.
      Dave
    6. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      Shotgun it is, but flintlock - it ain't!
    7. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Thank you so much pw. So if it ain't flintlock what is it blunder?!??!
    8. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      Just a rabbit eared double barrel that the breech opens for loading cartridges.
    9. pw-collector pw-collector, 6 years ago
      Here is a link showing a flintlock & how it works.
      http://science.howstuffworks.com/flintlock2.htm
    10. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Thank you for the comments blunder and pw. So you guys are saying this was never made with the intention of being able to be fired? Is it even that old? It seems to be.

      With my limited knowledge related to guns blunder what you said "Just a rabbit eared double barrel that the breech opens for loading cartridges." makes absolutely no sense to me. :)
    11. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Thank you for the comments and feedback igottaold. Have an awesome evening my friend!
    12. pw-collector pw-collector, 6 years ago
      W. Richards link that might interest you. The W. Richards shown has a "top
      lever" barrel release latch where yours has a "side lever" barrel release latch. The side lever preceded the top lever.
      http://vpnavy01.com/websites/shotgun/index1.html
      In your first photo, it appears there is a large crack in the stock behind the hammers.
      This probably has damascus barrels for use of Black Powder Loaded Shells only.
      Dave
    13. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      Electo. The lever on the lft. side should make the breech open (the barrels swing down) for loading shotgun cartridges (shells). I see no appearance of Damascus in the barrels but agree that it is probably for black powder. Until it is known for sure, don't try to fire it with modern shells as it could blow-up around the breech. Needs to be checked closely, but by the pics, I would just hang it on the wall.
    14. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      It is a firing shotgun and NOT a replica. Buss had it correct.

      There was a substantial use of shotguns by the military prior to Viet Nam.

      scott
    15. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      I don't agree with the replica idea. People don't replicate things of no extra value except in plastic for such junk as "pirate pistols" etc.. This appears real but just needs to be researched more, and that's not my job. Do your research & let us know. That breech locking system would probably put it in the era of the change from Black powder to smokeless & that makes a lot of diff. in breech pressures. Just hang it on the wall.
    16. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      The lever on the left does make the breech open.
    17. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      It is late 19th century.

      scott
    18. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      scottvez. Blunder. I commend you both for the information provided. It is greatly appreciated. I have great respect and appreciation for both of you.
    19. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      Glad to help. I would echo with buss' caution about shooting. I wouldn't try a modern shotgun shell in it.

      Looks like a nice wall hanger.

      scott
    20. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      I've never heard of a replica that you could chamber a shell in & has a functional firing pin. Again, why would somebody replicate anything that isn't worth replicating & lose money doing it? Use some common sense! It's "real". Just don't try to shoot it without a full reliable inspection.
    21. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      Your assessment of antique firearms is off. Research and handling of these goes a long way in assisting in correctly identifying.

      scott
    22. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Okay. Thanks again blunder. I will be very careful with this item and continue my research on it. All of you have been a tremendous help and once again I am grateful and appreciative for what you've done.

      Apparently it is not a Wesley Richards though. But I guess it really doesn't matter does it? :)
    23. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      The firepins seem functional to me from what I can tell. Also there is a large crack in the stock behind the hammers as you noticed pw.
    24. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      Yeah it breeches igotta. Pushing down on the lever on the left releases the barrels allowing them to swing down.
    25. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      I have never focused on shotguns, tobacco; but I do believe that there are many spurious examples with the "Richards" name.

      Other than saying it is an antique shotgun, I wouldn't want to commit to a maker.

      By the way-- the screw on the top mentioned by recordplayer, is typical in most 19th century firearms and NOT and indicator of a replica.

      That same screw is found on muzzle loading US military firearms of the 19th century.

      scott
    26. fortapache fortapache, 6 years ago
      That is not a nonfiring replica. The nonfiring replica all have short barrels and the fact that the two guns are not exact does not mean one is a nonfiring replica.
    27. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      recordplayer-- in addition to researching, reading about and HANDLING antique guns, you might want to take a look at the forum rules to ensure your comments are in compliance.

      scott
    28. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      I give up! LOL!
    29. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      STAFF! RUNAWAY POSTE!! LOL!
    30. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 6 years ago
      Scott, did you get a "point" deducted? Never heard of this point system. Must be new or I would have been banned ages ago!!! Remember Staff, I luv you, no matter what everybody else says about you! LOL!!! How many points do I have against me?
    31. scottvez scottvez, 6 years ago
      Don't know anything about points, but did find the guesses and language annoying!

      scott
    32. electobacco electobacco, 6 years ago
      With this gun, and the comments it inspired, it really felt like we stepped back in time to the days of the Wild Wild West!! :)
    33. Sundancehtx, 5 years ago
      I have a shotgun exactly like this one. Did you ever discover its age or worth?
      Thanks!
    34. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 5 years ago
      Remove the barrels & see if it is stamped W.F. or W.F.C.
    35. Sundancehtx, 5 years ago
      I see the number 9121 below the firing pins where the barrels sit. Some symbols. No W.F. or W.F.C., yet. The bottom of the barrels says 184, LG, E LG in an oval, and some other symbols. W. Richards is on each side of the stock plates behind the hammers. It was my fathers and was passed to me when he died. have no idea where he got it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    36. Sundancehtx, 5 years ago
      Where exactly would the WF be found?
    37. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 5 years ago
      Too bad. A Wells Fargo stamping would make the value jump ! LOL ! The LG & ELG are Belgium proof marks.
    38. dahouk, 4 years ago
      I have this gun and am looking under the barrel. The letters appear to be C.R and a partial C, almost like a curved L. Above it facing the other direction are those letters repeated. The barrels are numbered 11 and 12. Anyone have an idea what those letters mean?
    39. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 4 years ago
      I'm not shotgun guy and so don't recognize those initials. It was proofed in Belgium, so that would be the area I would search. Online, there are loads of info on makers. That includes Belgium since making guns are big business there. Bon chance
    40. PoliticalPinbacks PoliticalPinbacks, 4 years ago
      Nice shotgun love the look but agree I wouldn't want to be the first to fire it.
      Gave a buddies friend ( I didn't like the weasel he still owes me $50 from 1976) a side by side to fire as his first time ever to shoot a shotgun, I loaded it with 2 magnum shells and told him to put a finger on each trigger and to be sure to pull the front one this makes both barrels fire at the same time from the recoil, it was the only time I've seen someone fly backwards just like in the movies and the only time I laughed at someone getting hurt, Maybe he thought I got my $50 worth ;p maybe I did ;D
      The lesson? if you get it working never pull the front trigger first or use two fingers.
    41. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 4 years ago
      As any good gunsmith will tell you: Put it in an old tire, put a 5 lb bag on the over the top of the barrels, tie a 1/4 mi. string to the trigger and pull from the end of the string.
    42. PoliticalPinbacks PoliticalPinbacks, 4 years ago
      what end?
    43. fortapache fortapache, 4 years ago
      Looks like our long gone research expert was here. No more Barney Google.
    44. scottvez scottvez, 4 years ago
      Not missed by me! His threatening posts were too much for even CW to tolerate!

      scott
    45. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 4 years ago
      What did I miss ?
    46. scottvez scottvez, 4 years ago
      You were involved-- it was a few years ago.

      The guy was a self proclaimed research expert. He had little/ no knowledge and would post what he found online-- which was often incorrect. When challenged on his postings he would threaten folks.

      scott
    47. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 4 years ago
      I remember the one. Guess his parents never got married.
    48. Dj4me2 Dj4me2, 2 years ago
      I have same looking gun but more info needed on my gun (I have proofs and Serial Numbers but thats It no names no address) think you can you help?
    49. Dj4me2 Dj4me2, 2 years ago
      lets go over the differance between the 2. hammers on my gun hit what looks like a a bolts Nut with a little pin that pushes the firing pin out. I have 3 parts with matching serial number 3262 and on top of barrels says Laminated Steel , a set of proof marks under side of barrel show a Brimmingham proof with sords crossing and a V under and the 11 marking each side with a blackpower proof as well same proof on block with more letters under sorwds crossing as well as 5 in middle of block so 3262 is on underside of fore grip of wood and on barrel and on block. im only asking on this form because this is only gun that looks like mine with left side break lever. please help. im not shooting this gun thx to poster for humbling your self to level of being told not to shoot your gun... IDK what person would take time to post question to form about getting info for value of said gun this go fire it... you would shoot it 1st if you were going to do so anyways then ask ? later ......
    50. scottvez scottvez, 2 years ago
      Suggest you post your shotgun along with some detailed photos.

      scott
    51. glennbeasley, 1 year ago
      Electobacco I just inherited the same gun just now, my father got it from his fathers father, says it is an 1800 side by side and I cant find any numbers other then W Richards Belgium. I need to locate a part that is broken
    52. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 1 year ago
      Glen, that's not going to be easy ! Think repairing part or making a new one. What part is broken ?
    53. glennbeasley, 1 year ago
      One of the hammers won’t spring spring back and release unless I hold the trigger and move it forward, I suspect a spring, also the trigger guard has been broken and brazed together, it broke again. Forgive me as I’m not a person that knows a lot about guns. I’m trying to research now to find more about it. My father got it from his fathers father and he just gave it to me. Thanks for your reply and any help you can give me on finding more about it. Lots of markings but no serial number that I can find
    54. glennbeasley, 1 year ago
      Took it apart and found the spring tip it worn off, not sure how to attach pictures on here
    55. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 1 year ago
      Sounds like a fairly easy job for any competent gunsmith. The brazed triggerguard may be more of a problem since you can't weld where brazing penetrated the iron. Maybe just re-braze it. It is what it is.
    56. glennbeasley, 1 year ago
      I agree with you there, I’m guessing a gunsmith might be able to make the spring as well. How would I post a picture on this forum if I had to do it
    57. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 1 year ago
      Without pix, I have no way to advise. If a leaf-spring, it maybe can be repaired with a touch on the end without having to re-temper the spring. About this era, coil springs were being used and can be replaced fairly easily. You don't give any info to go on. If I had it and thought it was worth restoring, I would cut out the part of the trigger guard that had bronze penetration, weld in a small piece and work it down to original specs.. Only you know what you want and how much expense you think it's worth. If for home defense, I advise against using modern ammo. If just to restore, I appreciate what you're doing. Many of these guns from that era were made for black powder and won't take the pressures of smokeless. The transition was in the 1880's, but no guarantee as to maker's specs.. Advance on the safe side.
    58. glennbeasley, 1 year ago

      Hey thanks for the reply Blunder, I have 3 pictures here but for the life of me cant figure out how to attachment and post in this thread. I'm going to keep this in the family, my father said he did shoot it using black powder and it worked. Any ideas on how to post a picture on this thread?
    59. blunderbuss2 blunderbuss2, 1 year ago
      Easier to just post it as a new post. Then it's easy to follow the instructions.
    60. glennbeasley, 1 year ago
      Thanks, I’m still in the learning stage with this stuff

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