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Bohemian Art Nouveau Webbed Vase

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Bohemian Art Glass3330 of 6435Franz Welz, Klostergrab Red Green Spotted Pinched Vase Riedel Marbled Decor
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    Posted 6 years ago

    (792 items)

    I bought this to bring blue to my Art Nouveau glass. It's much prettier than I can show and I'm very pleased with it's iridescence. I can find no trace of the hallmarks but I believe it's the same martelé as on the green vase beside it.

    However as the the green one, when posted, was variously judged to be Kralik, Rindskopf and neither I'm leaving that alone, though should you want to comment on maker that's fine too.

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    1. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      oh, totally agree this is marvellous martelé example.
      Love it.

    2. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Thank you, Alan, it's the colour I love.
    3. Nordicman32 Nordicman32, 6 years ago
      stunning texture and color!!!
    4. Moonstonelover21 Moonstonelover21, 6 years ago
      Ok, gorgeous it.
    5. Gillian, 6 years ago
      Extraordinary colour and style. Beautiful.
    6. Alan2310 Alan2310, 6 years ago
      Sorry:-(, I love the colour to, Peggy.

    7. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Thank you, Nordicman, Moonstonelover and Gillian, your lovely comments are really appreciated :-)
    8. welzebub, 6 years ago
      I think the color of this new one is really nice. Although most call this Maretelé, the pattern on a Martelé vase is generally a tighter pattern. I do not consider this decor to be Martelé due to the largely varying size of the areas bordered by the ribbed décor. These are seen in some common colors like the green example you have, but are also seen in some more unusual shades of glass like this blue, and a couple of others I have seen.

      Maker?? I do not know. I do not think the production house has ever been solidly identified.
    9. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      No need for 'sorry' Alan, but glad you too like the colour!
    10. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Hi welzebub, Would you clarify what you mean by the sentence, 'I do not considor .................... the ribbed décor'.
    11. welzebub, 6 years ago
      Sure, Sorry if I was not clear. I am referring to the raised lines on the decor as the ribs. Likely a bad choice of word.

      I have prepared an image which shows the underside of a Kralik Martelé example with yours. I chose to use the underside as it clearly shows the décor pattern differences. Where the areas surrounded by "lines" on the Martele example are of consistent size and generally smaller, your décor has larger areas, and they vary greatly in size compared to the Kralik base.

      Since the word Martelé is a French word meaning hammered, such as in hammered metal, the smaller more regular spaces are representative of that decor. The larger and less consistent space sizes on yours are reminiscent more of a "web" than of Martelé. The French word for "webbed" is Palmé. Maybe since the source is unknown at present and the decor is unnamed, we should call it Palmé to differentiate it from Martelé. :-)

      The image link:

      Let me know if this helps.
    12. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      palmé, ée adj. Dont les doigts sont réunis par une membrane. Pattes palmées.

      This word has only one, specific meaning. Zool. Méd. and Bot. and I personally won't be calling this pretty vase 'webbed feet' :-)

      Toile d' araignée.......cobweb

      You did ask me if it helped.

    13. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      I do see the differences.....but I see it as no more than a variation. A maker wanting to be a little different, perhaps.
    14. welzebub, 6 years ago
      I used Google translate, which once again shows it obvious weakness... :-)

      I agree, but I think the operative words there being "a maker" (unknown) wanting to be "a little different", hence, the reason I do not refer to it as Martelé.

      If one looks at examples of Martelé from Harrach, Kralik, Rindskopf, and Loetz they all exhibit some common characteristics of the Kralik Martele I compared your example to.

      Some may say your blue piece it is a variant of Martelé. I dislike the term variant, as it kind of implies, at least to me, that close counts in research, and I do not adhere to that philosophy much.
    15. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Nothing wrong with your logic but in an English speaking forum why the French?
    16. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Essentially the raised pattern is
    17. welzebub, 6 years ago
      For fun?? :-) In keeping with the spirit of Martelé. :-) Obviously it was a sensational flop of a suggestion based on a bad Google translation. :-)

      "Essentially the raised pattern is"

      If one looks at hammered metal, the origins of the Martelé décor name, it is comprised of small fairly consistent sized marks from the ball of the hammer used. The very large spaces and largely varying sizes in this do not look to me like hammered metal, or Martelé.

      The fact that the house that has produced these has never really been nailed down, and the fact that the décor can be easily differentiated from Martelé, would preclude me from grouping it in that family of décors, all of which are similarly recognizable by the other houses.

      Just my personal opinion.
    18. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Can we find a name that recognises its irregularity?......was what I meant to suggest, but clearly didn't. Can we give it some thought and come back to it, perhaps?

      My only idea so far is 'craquelé' meaning 'crazed' as used for a ceramic glaze which over time develops surface cracks. Still not necessarily irregular enough perhaps.

    19. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Craquelé is also used to describe a paint effect which causes irregular surface cracks on painted furniture......
    20. antiquerose antiquerose, 6 years ago
      Ooooooooo -- I LOVE the BLUE Color -- Dazzling !!
    21. racer4four racer4four, 6 years ago
      Gorgeous and more Peggy. I'm a sucker for green glass but I actually think this outdoes your green.
    22. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Thanks antiquerose....but not as dazzling as your link!!
    23. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Just so, Karen, I'm very fond of this one.....gone straight to the mantelpiece!
    24. Michelleb007 Michelleb007, 6 years ago
      Hi Peggy, oh, I am so glad you got this one! The color is just beautiful. I have been following these vases for a while (the irregular martele, where some spaces are much larger than in other areas) and have been collecting image examples whenever I come across this one. This one was on my radar, I think. :) One thing you might like to know about them is that they are quite distinctive color-wise, too, in my opinion. In my files, I have examples of vases in this unusual lovely dusky blue color, in pale dusky pink, in aquamarine, in cranberry (but again, a bit dusky) and in a bright green. My own example is a bright green, with a shiny flashed finish, which is quite unusual to find. Just thought I'd add my own two cents to the discussion! I personally believe they are by an as yet unidentified maker, and not by Rindskopf or Kralik, based on both the pattern and the colors used...
    25. Rick55 Rick55, 6 years ago
      What more can I say that hasn't already been said Peggy? A truly lovely piece of glass!!
    26. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Hi Michelle. I always welcome your 'two cents' as you bring evidence based information which benefits us all. I was particularly interested in your comments on colour. In other spheres e.g. textiles, the more subtle shades are more expensive to produce and thus tend to come from high end makers....
      I hope you're going to post your example one day.... sounds special :-)
    27. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Hi Rick, sometimes 'a lovely piece of glass' can outweigh knowing the maker! Thanks for commenting.
    28. welzebub, 6 years ago
      Hi Peggy. When I see the word Cracquelé I think of another glass technique that word is used to describe. I keep coming back to webbed, or cobweb, as that is what it evokes an image of when I see this décor.

      I also agree with Michelle, in that the overall color assortment the décor is found in is a little different than the shades we generally see. My observation would also be, after looking at these for quite some time, that the colors found on the décor are also not really seen much in other décors.
    29. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Yes, I see the disadvantage of craquelé, so webbed or cobweb then, Craig :-)
    30. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 6 years ago
      I *love* this pattern. I think it is very redolent of a broken spider web and you will find (at least) one part on the body - for example on pic 2 - where the 5-6 spokes radiate out from the "centre" of the web. At least that's my take on it.

      I agree with the discussion about martelé versus any other term. My take on martelé references metalwork and looks at the regular irregularity of the cells/ units (whatever you call them). Most regular is "quilted" where the cells are all the same (allowing for the shape of the vase), then there are varying degrees of martelé, and this I would call spider web. But I might be alone in seeing that?
    31. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 6 years ago
      Inky has one exactly the same and I have posted a few. The rims, where not collared, are highly polished, somewhat out of keeping with Kralik as a maker, I think.
    32. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Just so, Ian, the rim of the green one is highly polished, as I think I said when I posted it.
    33. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 6 years ago
    34. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 6 years ago
      I have put down one as Kralik, but will keep afoot of discussion here re ID.
    35. SEAN68 SEAN68, 6 years ago
    36. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Thanks for all your comments, Ian, interesting!
    37. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Glad you like it too, Sean. Thanks!
    38. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      Thank you for the loves, Alan, Nordicman, Moonstonelover, Gillian, mikelv, VioletOrange, katherinescollections, vetraio, antiquerose, facer, Michelle, rucklczglass, Rick, ozmarty, inky, kivatinitz, IanBrighton, SEAN, OneGoodFind, Justanovice and Ivonne.
    39. sklo42 sklo42, 6 years ago
      smiata, a big thank you :-)

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